1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Martial Law?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Polymath257, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    12,783
    Ratings:
    +6,437
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I guess it will depend on how hot the summer is and how bare the supermarket shelves get. Toss in a few rolling blackouts, and it might get pretty wild out there. This will be one crazy summer which will spill over into the fall. Martial law will likely be declared close to election time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,239
    Ratings:
    +1,546
    Religion:
    agnostic
    I remember right wingers saying Obama was going to cancel elections and stay on.
     
  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    28,513
    Ratings:
    +11,241
    Religion:
    Bompu Zen Buddhism
    There's a disconnect between police and military. People don't realize the fact the police force is a form of military. They have the same weapons equipment and armor as soldiers do, including heavy and light machine guns, tanks, and various aircraft.

    People are right in the sense that it's not martial law because the police have not taken over all branches of government along with the suspension of constitutional Rights.

    However for all practical intents and purposes, aside from the technicalities associated with the definition, it is no doubt martial law no matter how you look at it.
     
  4. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    28,513
    Ratings:
    +11,241
    Religion:
    Bompu Zen Buddhism
    If Trump does cancel the elections, I will no longer be a Republican.
     
  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,226
    Ratings:
    +6,312
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    I was J/K, hopefully.
     
  6. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    3,525
    Ratings:
    +2,955
    Religion:
    Creedalist Xian
    Here's what the Donald said yesterday afternoon, in the Rosegarden:

    Thank you very much. my fellow Americans my first and highest duty as president is to defend our great country and the American people. I swore an oath to uphold the laws of our nation and that is exactly what I will do. All Americans were rightly sickened and revolted by the brutal death of George Floyd. My administration is fully committed that for George and his family justice will be served. He will not have died in vain. But we cannot allow the righteous cries and peaceful protestors to be drowned out by an angry mob. The biggest victims of the rioting are peace-loving citizens in our poorest communities and, as their president, I will fight to keep them safe I will fight to protect you. I am your president of law and order and an ally of all peaceful protesters. But in recent days our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists, violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, antifa, and others. A number of state and local governments have failed to take necessary action to safeguard their residents. Innocent people have been savagely beaten like the young man in Dallas Texas who was left dying on the street or the woman in upstate New York
    viciously attacked by dangerous thugs. Small business owners have seen their dreams utterly destroyed. New York's finest have been hit in the face with bricks. Brave nurses who have battled the virus are afraid to leave their homes. A police precinct has been overrun here in the nation's capital. The Lincoln Memorial and the World War Two memorial have been vandalized. One of our most historic churches was set ablaze. A federal officer in California, an african-american enforcement hero, was shot and killed. These are not acts of peaceful protests, these are acts of domestic terror. The destruction of innocent life, and the spilling of innocent blood is an offense to humanity and a crime against God. America needs creation not destruction cooperation not contempt security not anarchy, healing not hatred, justice not chaos. This is our mission and we will succeed 100%. We will succeed. Our country always wins.
    That is why I am taking immediate presidential action to stop the violence and restore security and
    safety in America. I am mobilizing all available federal resources, civilian and military to stop the rioting and looting to end the destruction and arson and to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans including your second Amendment rights.
    Therefore the following measures are going into effect:
    • Immediately, first, we are ending the riots and lawlessness that has spread throughout our country. We will end it now, today.
    • I have strongly recommended to every governor to deploy the National Guard in sufficient numbers that we dominate the streets. Mayors and governors must establish an overwhelming law enforcement presence until the violence has been quelled. If a city orstate refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents,then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problemfor them.
    • I am also taking swift and decisive action to protect our great capital Washington DC. What happened in this city last night was a total disgrace. As we speak I am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers military personnel and law enforcement officers to stop the rioting looting vandalism assaults and the wanton destruction of property.
    • We are putting everybody on warning: our seven o'clock curfew will be strictly enforced. Those who threaten innocent life and property will be arrested detained and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I want the organizers of this terror to be on notice that you will face severe criminal penalties and lengthy sentences in jail. This includes antifa and others who are leading instigators of this violence.
    • One law and order, and that is what it is: one law. We have one beautiful law. And once that is restored, and fully restored, we will help you. We will help your businesses, and we will help your families/ America is founded upon the rule of law. It is the foundation of our prosperity, our freedom, and our very way of life. But where there is no law, there is no opportunity. Where there is no justice, there is no Liberty. Where there is no safety, there is no future. We must never give in to anger or hatred. If malice or violence reigns, then none of us is free.
    • I take these actions today with firm resolve and with a true and passionate love for our country. By far, our greatest days lie ahead. Thank you very much. And now, I'm going to pay my respects to a very very special place. Thank you very much.
    (Transcript downloaded from



    and edited by yours truly. Be sure to watch the whole 40 minute+ video, so that you can be as annoyed as I was that Trump didn't start talking until anouy 32:00.)
     
  7. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    22,982
    Ratings:
    +17,386
    Religion:
    None
    Leave me out of this
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Respect, compassion, and understanding.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,549
    Ratings:
    +2,423
    Religion:
    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance
    Trump and pear-shaped spring to mind - over coronavirus and this latest episode. My memories are a bit vague over riots and such, but France and the UK in past decades comes to mind, as well as previous race-related issues in the USA. You Americans all have my sympathy in not having a better leader in such trying times. :( And it seems that much of the rest of the world does recognise the outrage that many feel over this latest death.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    15,596
    Ratings:
    +17,056
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Yes, that is my concern.
     
  10. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    12,226
    Ratings:
    +1,698
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
  11. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,553
    Ratings:
    +6,424
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    I understand your viewpoint, and agree those things are not good.

    I cannot help but wonder, however, if it is not true that there are at least some (possibly quite a few) Americans who have quite literally "had it up to here," and really believe that the situation will ever be made right -- that they will always be fodder for police who might just like taking one or two of them out, from time to time.

    Does nothing, ever, justify rising up and taking action? The American Revolution, for example, could be considered an example of such a thing.
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,565
    Ratings:
    +51,544
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    Too late!
    [​IMG]
     
  13. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Ratings:
    +14
    It is comming. There is more here than apears. We are witnessing the collapse of globalism and with it the collapse of the worlds reserve currency. Tariffs are a trick for buisness to hoard goods, just like the recent food scares tricks people to hoard goods, and these riots will scare people out of the cities. When the currency collapses no food will get into the cities and there will be mass starvation. This happens every 80 ish years. The first was the revolutionary war, next the civil war, the next WWII, and now. We are in the fourth turning.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,565
    Ratings:
    +51,544
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    The riots are certainly striking events in the news.
    But the vast majority of us are just working, relaxing, &/or
    enjoying the weather, & hoping that things calm down soon.
     
  15. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,553
    Ratings:
    +6,424
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    I'm sure that would be nice...

    But you know, there really is a deep-rooted, entrenched racism that seems to pervade many aspects of our lives, cultures and society -- certainly in the US, but also here in Canada, in Britain, and many other places around the world.

    Is it just something that we, as humans, can't help? I don't think so -- I don't think that I'm racist, for example (although I've never liked the cadence of the Philippine language Tagalog). I work in an office that actually employs fewer whites than Indians, Philippinas, blacks, and Muslims. And I'm quite comfortable in it. Most of the people that I place in the IT industry these days are from countries like India, Uganda, Albania -- all over the world, really.

    So what does it take to root out racism? Why is it so very, very stubborn -- like religion, actually?
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,565
    Ratings:
    +51,544
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    As I explored in another thread, I think the larger problem is policing in general.
     
  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    22,982
    Ratings:
    +17,386
    Religion:
    None

    Yes i know, i have several. But I keep telling you, im not french
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,565
    Ratings:
    +51,544
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    I can smell the snails in garlic sauce on yer breath.
    (Good move...ditching the heavy cream sauce.)

    Btw, if french curves aren't French,
    then are lesbian rules not lesbians?
    Lesbian rule - Wikipedia
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,239
    Ratings:
    +1,546
    Religion:
    agnostic
    I don't think DC has a governor. Does executive authority over DC then fall to the President?
     
  20. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    3,525
    Ratings:
    +2,955
    Religion:
    Creedalist Xian
    My understanding that the chief executive of the District of Columbia is a Mayor, in this case: Muriel Bowser. As such, she has authority over transactions within the boundaries of DC that take place in non-Federal land, which includes the right to request deployment of the National Guard. (That authority also belongs to each of the 50 state governors.

    The President, on the other hand, has direct authority over transactions that take place on federal land, which includes but is not limited to the grounds of the White House.

    Your question shines a light on my ignorance and, coincidently, on my very recent interest in making sense of the structure, chain of command, and authority in and over the National Guard. I'm studying the National Guard now, but am still woefully ignorant.

    One thing I have just begun to clarify for myself is the intriguing fact that the National Guard--which is a militia, divided into the Army National Guard (ANG) and the Army Reserve/National Guard (ARNG)--may be requested by DC's mayor or by any state governor to send in troops; OR may be requested by the President to send in troops to serve on federal land in the U.S. or to serve outside of the U.S. along with regular U.S. Army troops.

    DC's mayor and state governors may not request National Guard troops to act within federal jurisdictions. The President, however, may request National Guard troops to act within U.S. non-federal jurisdictions only in cases of extreme emergency, i.e. when overriding the authority of the DC mayor or a state governor.
    • 12 times the president called in the military domestically
      • "There are a number of reasons the National Guard may be called to duty in the United States, including to help after disasters and provide security for events. On any given day, a National Guard spokesman said, 2,000 to 4,000 Guardsmen are on duty for a variety of missions."
      • "A president mobilizing the Guard to respond to a situation, however, is rare. In January 2017, President Trump threatened in a tweet to "send in the Feds!" in response to violence in Chicago. Ultimately, he didn't."
      • "National Guard historians, in response to a request by the Chicago Tribune, listed 12 times since the enactment of the 1952 Armed Forces Reserve Act when the Guard was called into duty and operated under the control of the president. Many of these incidents were during the turbulent civil rights struggles in the 1960s."
      • "This list doesn't include the many times the Guard was activated by a governor and operated under state control, and, in about half of the examples below, the governor of the state asked for help."
        • Desegregation of Little Rock school
          On Sept. 23, 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower signed an executive order sending troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division to maintain order and peace during the integration of Central High School by nine black students in Little Rock, Ark. Arkansas Gov. Orval Faubus earlier called in the state National Guard to bar black students from the school.
        • Integration of University of Mississippi
          Riots erupted on the campus of the University of Mississippi in Oxford on Sept. 30, 1962, when James Meredith, a black Air Force veteran, attempted to integrate the all-white school. Despite the presence of more than 120 federal marshals who were on hand to protect Meredith from harm, the crowd turned violent. The next morning, two civilians were dead and scores more were reported injured. After spending the night of Sept. 30 under federal protection, Meredith was allowed to register for classes the following morning, and became the first black graduate from the university in August 1963.
        • Integration of University of Alabama
          On May 16, 1963, a federal district court in Alabama ordered the University of Alabama to admit two African-American students. Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who had made a campaign promise to prevent the integration even if he had to stand in the schoolhouse door, temporarily blocked the students' entrance by doing just that June 11, 1963. He ultimately yielded when President John F. Kennedy federalized Alabama's National Guard.
        • Integration of Alabama schools
          Although the U.S. Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown vs. the Board of Education found racial segregation of children in public schools violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, it did not immediately eliminate it. Segregation didn't end in Alabama public schools until 1963, when Sonnie Hereford IV became one of four black children to enroll in a previously all-white public school in Huntsville, Ala., following a court order.
        • Selma, Montgomery civil rights march
          On March 7, 1965, which became known as "Bloody Sunday," peaceful protesters led by John Lewis were beaten by local police as they tried to cross Selma's Edmund Pettus Bridge. The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. led more than 3,000 marchers across the same bridge two weeks later and continued on a 54-mile trek to Montgomery, the state's capital, under the watchful protection of the recently federalized Alabama National Guard. The five-day march, one of the seminal moments in civil rights history, led to the passage of the Voting Rights Act in 1965.
        • Detroit riots
          Ignited when Detroit's nearly all-white police force arrested several black revelers at an after-hours drinking club in the early morning on July 23, 1967, the riot triggered a devastating period of violence in the city that left 43 people dead and millions of dollars in property destroyed. Thousands of Army troops and National Guardsmen were called to the city.
        • Chicago riots following assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.
          On April 4, 1968, the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated in Memphis, Tenn. As the tragic news spread, riots and looting took place in cities including New York, Washington, Nashville, Tenn., and Raleigh, N.C. In Chicago on the first night of rioting, nine people, all black, were killed. On Saturday, with the approval of Mayor Richard J. Daley, the Army was called in and thousands of troops descended on the city's troubled areas. When the fires died out, 162 buildings had been destroyed, 12 people killed and 3,000 arrested.
        • Washington riots following King's murder
          In the days following King's assassination 13,600 troops occupied Washington, according to The Washinton Post, the most to occupy a U.S. city since the Civil War. When news spread of King's murder, looting and rioting broke out across the city.
        • Baltimore riots following King's murder
          Riots following King's assassination devastated Baltimore for two weeks. Six were killed, dozens injured, and fires and looting caused damage. Thousands of National Guard troops were deployed across the city.
        • New York City postal strike
          During a strike of U.S. postal workers involving 152,000 workers in 671 locations across the country. President Richard Nixon called in the National Guard to help get the mail moving in one of the hardest-hit areas: New York City. The strike concerned what the unions saw as a small pay raise. The strike lasted for two weeks, the military mail helpers were considered ineffective and the postal workers got their raise.
        • Looting after Hurricane Hugo
          President George H.W. Bush called in the National Guard to restore order on the island of St. Croix of the U.S. Virgin Islands. Looting and racial tension broke out following devastating damage from Hurricane Hugo. The storm damage buried the island in rubble, destroying most homes and knocking out communications. The storm sparked long-standing racial tensions that led to rioting and looting. Bush sent in 1,100 heavily armed troops.
        • Riots after Rodney King verdict
          Arson, violence and looting broke out across Los Angeles following the not-guilty verdicts in all but one assault charge in the video-taped police beating of Rodney King. During the violence, 2,000 reserve soldiers were activated. During six days of rioting, more than 60 people were killed and more than 2,000 people were injured.
    Back to your question:

    The general rule says: "No. Executive authority over DC belongs to Mayor Boswell."
    Exception to the rule: "Unless and until Trump decides to assert authority."

    Regarding events yesterday, Trump's request for National Guard troops stationed on White House grounds was within his authority. However, when those troops were ordered to clear the street and space in front of St. John's Episcopal Church--using, I might add, tear gas and rubber bullets--the troops under his authority was, IMO and the opinion of MANY others, an egregious abuse of authority and, as @Polymath257 has noted, bodes no good thing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...