Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

[paarsurrey]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

Deuteronomy Chapter 13:1-11

1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
2 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,
3 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';
4 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
5 After the LORD your God shall ye walk, and Him shall ye fear, and His commandments shall ye keep, and unto His voice shall ye hearken, and Him shall ye serve, and unto Him shall ye cleave.
6 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken perversion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage, to draw thee aside out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.
7 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, that is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying: 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
8 of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
9 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him;
10 but thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
11 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to draw thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 13 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

The above verses are from Jewish Torah:
Please
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

Is there any reason to believe that the Jewish people ever killed any Miessiah claimaint?

They sure suffered through quite a few without entertaining the notion.

Christian tradition claims that they denounced Jesus to the Romans, but I don't see why anyone would believe that.

And even if they did kill Jesus, my god it was over 2000 years ago, let the past go for god sake.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Its easy to say Jews didnt kill Prophets.


I gues John and Zacharias died peaceful death?
I gues Jews and Romans wanted to be friends with Jesus?(they almost killed him, had Allah not decreed to save him)
I suppose the Jews didnt want to poison prophet Muhammad PBUH?

Oh let us all close our eyes and deny all these things!

 

[paarsurrey]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

Here is the paradox from Rambam (paraphrased by me):

If Moshiach comes and claims to be as such , he is not be accepted truthful unless he accomplishes the qualifications set for him.

Every attempt is to be made to kill him as per the commandments as mentioned and given above (Deuteronomy 13:1-11).

So instead of accepting a truthful prophets/reformers from the very beginning and giving him the needed support they, the Judaism, make attempts to kill them. Right? Please

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Its easy to say Jews didnt kill Prophets.


I gues John and Zacharias died peaceful death?
I gues Jews and Romans wanted to be friends with Jesus?(they almost killed him, had Allah not decreed to save him)
I suppose the Jews didnt want to poison prophet Muhammad PBUH?

Oh let us all close our eyes and deny all these things!

That is an interesting way of describing the situation.

And, if I dare to be so bold, one that many or even most "westerners" will have a hard time attempting to understand.

You may or may not be aware of several likely reasons why.

• Much as people don't generally feel responsible for the mistakes of their ancestors, most Jews and Christians feel no particular need to answer for what ancient Jews may or may not have done.
• The Biblical claim that the Jewish People attempted to lie about Jesus is, understandably enough, not perceived as trustworthy by most Jews. There are those who specifically believe that Christianity decided at some point to slander the Jewish People outright, or even that such slandering was one of its goals from the very beginning.
• Christians and, I suspect, even Jewish People do not necessarily even believe in their own scriptures to the extent of assuming that the accounts about prophets and claimants truly existed. Instead, their religious life involves varied degrees of emphasis on other aspects of their doctrines. Belief in scripture simply isn't as big a deal outside of the Muslim world.

 

[paarsurrey]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

Here is the paradox from Rambam (paraphrased by me):

If Moshiach comes and claims to be as such , he is not be accepted truthful unless he accomplishes the qualifications set for him.

Every attempt is to be made to kill him as per the commandments as mentioned and given above (Deuteronomy 13:1-11).

So instead of accepting a truthful prophets/reformers from the very beginning and giving him the needed support they, the Judaism, make attempts to kill them. Right? Please

I add to the above:
The Rambam's (Maimonides) Laws of Kings is the only source in Jewish law on the identity of Moshiach and the criteria he must fulfill. The Rebbe said the following:

"In the end of Laws of Kings the Rambam writes, 'The King Moshiach will arise... and whoever does not believe in him or does not await his coming is not only denying the other Prophets but the Torah and Moshe Rabbeinu as well.' The Rambam continues to explain a few more details regarding King Moshiach and the condition of the world in the days of Moshiach, that all these details are not mere stories, but actual halachah [rulings of Torah law]. This is true in all matters in the Rambam's book, even a halachah of but a few words — how much more so when there are two full chapters [devoted to this subject]. From this we learn that there is an obligation to believe and await (not only in general for the coming of Moshiach, but also) all the details enumerated by the Rambam."
The qualifications for Moshiach | King Moshiach | Moshiach Times

Please
Regards

 

[Spiderman]

That passage makes me feel like a false-prophet

 

[Tumah]

Come on man, take one for the team!

I've seen his threads. Not going to happen.

 

[David1967]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

It is against human rights. Such a person should be, if at all necessary, to be proved wrong with reasons and arguments or left to himself in peace. Right? Please
Regards

Outside of some old testament writings, do you have any evidence that Jews have killed anyone for claiming to be a prophet? I don't know of any.

 

[rosends]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

Deuteronomy Chapter 13:1-11

1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
2 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,
3 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';
4 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
5 After the LORD your God shall ye walk, and Him shall ye fear, and His commandments shall ye keep, and unto His voice shall ye hearken, and Him shall ye serve, and unto Him shall ye cleave.
6 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken perversion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage, to draw thee aside out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.
7 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, that is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying: 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
8 of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
9 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him;
10 but thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
11 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to draw thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 13 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

The above verses are from Jewish Torah:
Please
Regards

You should reread verse 3.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

.
May I assume you are talking about Jesus?
If so, that isn't why he was crucified. He was executed by the Roman authorities for treason against the state. Whether it was true or not*, Jesus was executed for insurrection and not any theological claims. The Romans did not care about Jewish religion.
Now, the Jewish authorities probably despised Him for being a social reformer. That threatened their position of wealth and power. They may well have trumped up some charges to get rid of Him. The case against Him appears to have been weak, Pilate wasn't convinced at first. But Pilate didn't much care about one Jew so just ordering the execution was the easiest thing to do. And it set an example for the other Jews as they gathered in droves to Jerusalem for Passover. "Don't Mess with Rome!", is the clear message sent by such a horrible execution.
But it wasn't about prophethood or anything like that.
Tom

* I believe that it was true. I believe that Jesus was a violent antiRoman revolutionary. If He were a modern day Iraqi fighting the USA occupation He would be considered a terrorist.

That's a horse of a different color.

 

[paarsurrey]

You should reread verse 3.

Human rights would still apply.
Regards

 

[MonkeyFire]

Don't let the murderers ruin our religions.

 

[rosends]

Human rights would still apply.
Regards

But it invalidates your entire thread. And if you are concerned about human rights, why aren't you questioning any and every society that has capital punishment?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

It is against human rights. Such a person should be, if at all necessary, to be proved wrong with reasons and arguments or left to himself in peace. Right? Please
Regards

Jesus was not killed for his claims but because of his disciples acclaiming him king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem which at the time was a Roman province. So, he was killed on a charge of insurrection. Hence his verdict nailed on the top of his cross by orders of Pilate read, INRI, so that every one could see the reason why Jesus was crucified. But, as I can see, it didn't help because, up to this very day, we still have anti-Jewish people who prefer to slander the Jewish authorities with having crucified Jesus. Racial hatred is amazing and hard to understand.

 

[Kemosloby]

Jesus was not killed for his claims but because of his disciples acclaiming him king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem which at the time was a Roman province. So, he was killed on a charge of insurrection. Hence his verdict nailed on the top of his cross by orders of Pilate read, INRI, so that every one could see the reason why Jesus was crucified. But, as I can see, it didn't help because, up to this very day, we still have anti-Jewish people who prefer to slander the Jewish authorities with having crucified Jesus. Racial hatred is amazing and hard to understand.

Except that Pilate found Jesus to be innocent, the Jews chose to crucify him anyway, even over a convicted murderer. According to the bible.

 

[Baroodi]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

It is against human rights. Such a person should be, if at all necessary, to be proved wrong with reasons and arguments or left to himself in peace. Right? Please
Regards

The Jews killed how many of their prophets?? Read their history not their false books. You can see what they are doing now to see how they are brutal !!

 

[paarsurrey]

Except that Pilate found Jesus to be innocent, the Jews chose to crucify him anyway, even over a convicted murderer. According to the bible.

Yes, the intention of the Jews was to kill innocent Jesus.
Regards

 

[Muffled]

Judaism: why kill somebody just for his claim that he is a prophet of God?

It is against human rights. Such a person should be, if at all necessary, to be proved wrong with reasons and arguments or left to himself in peace. Right? Please
Regards

I believe as Jesus said that the people who walk in darkness can't stand the light so they wish to extinguish it.

 

[Muffled]

Is there any reason to believe that the Jewish people ever killed any Miessiah claimaint?

They sure suffered through quite a few without entertaining the notion.

Christian tradition claims that they denounced Jesus to the Romans, but I don't see why anyone would believe that.

I believe it is due to the fact that the scriptural record says so as opposed to a tradition.