Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Even still there is a difference between a person who is pursuing scientific study and someone who is not. These students, if they are engaged in learning more such that they might be scientists, can be reasonably labeled as scientists (or budding scientists). Would it be fair to label someone who is not currently pursuing nor has ever pursued engagement in scientific study as a scientist? Even if they self-identified with it? The goal of such a position on self-labeling is to disallow the free self-labeling as any particular thing just because one feels like it. Sure, I can call myself all sorts of things, however unless I fit into some valid definition of the thing, I am not actually that thing.
I agree that calling oneself a scientist or engineer is not something that should be done frivolously. These are highly trained and qualified individuals and one cannot just decide to become part of these groups.
On the other hand, what exactly is the problem with someone deciding they want to become a Jew ? I for one, will be the first to welcome them to the tribe.
Also, I am interested in Buddhist philosophy. No Buddhist has ever told me that I need to know a lot about Buddhist food, art and philosophy to associate with Buddhism. It seems Buddhists may be more welcoming than Jews.
I suppose you assume that a person who identifies as Jewish is in some way pursuing a connection with the Jewish people via religion, history, language, art, music, etc. And I can't say I've met someone who considered him/herself a Jew and had no interest in doing or learning anything about Jewishness. At the same time, if a persons says to me "I am a Jew" and there is nothing at all in their actions or language to suggest they know or desire to know anything about Jews, I question it. I may not pose the question to the person, but internally I question it.
Do you think you are being a little bit judgmental here ? I don't question that you are a Jewish Guardian of Life.
As a ger myself I find extreme discomfort in denying a person's Jewishness. At the same time, given that I cherish the Jewish aspect of my identity, I resist blanket approval of anyone who says "I am a Jew" if there's nothing to support that claim. In the case of the hamentaschen-eating Hindu, I would question why she eats the hamentaschen? Is it because she likes its taste? Is it because she feels a deep connection to the Jewish people and that weekly hamentaschen is her only way of expressing it? It's far too complex to boil down to simplicities, but it doesn't mean that we should consider anyone and everyone who considers himself/herself a <insert something here> that thing.
So what litmus test do you propose for someone to identify as a Jew ? Hamentaschen ? Expert in Torah ? Talmud ? Circumscism ?
I agree. I think Levite is a gentleman and a scholar. I notice he has not been posting here the last few days, and I hope it has nothing to do with any of my comments (hopefully he is just relaxing and studying during Shabbos). If I did say anything to him that was perceived as rude, I would like to apologize.I don't read Levite's post as suggesting that he would reject the Jewishness of a claimant, but merely that he finds it odd that someone with no connection to Jewishness might consider himself a Jew. I don't see his claims about what a Jew "should be" as his opinion of what constitutes a Jew. After all, that definition would exclude many people who are, halakhically, Jews. Knowing Levite relatively well I doubt he would be so stringent as to go beyond halakha in defining what a Jew is.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, for anything, is faith-work at play. At the very least, make no conclusions about the validity of the claim until further evidence has been presented and analyzed. In practice that means we shouldn't deny those who claim to be Jewish from enjoying participation in Jewish practice. It also means that if the claimant wishes to marry a Jew, and wants that marriage to be halakhically valid, they demonstrate that they are halakhically Jewish.
Ultimately, I suppose, it depends on what the goal is in their making of the claim.
This sounds like some kind of court action to determine if someone can associate with Judaism !!
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