Jewish culture

[Avi1001]

Good for you, standing up for the Jewish communities in developing and oppressed regions like Yemen and Russia, now that is the liberal Jewish spirit .

Lets not forget giving Tzedakah to Jewish communities in these countries in this time of Hanukah. Wouldn't it be cool if we did a donation drive from the Religious Forums ? If we each pledged $ US 10 - 25, we could send a few hundred dollars to needy families. Our sub-forum leaders, Tar and Cal, could coordinate. Wouldn't that be neat ?

I will pledge $ 25. Anyone want to coordinate ?

And, again, you are describing communities of Jews living deeply Jewish lives. They have nothing to do with the cultural Jews of today in America.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Good for you, standing up for the Jewish communities in developing regions like Yemen and Russia, now that is the liberal Jewish spirit .

Jewish communities in … Yemen? "Developing regions?"

“This evening we had the honor of undertaking a rare operation that combined saving lives, reuniting families and immigration to Israel,” said Jewish Agency Chairman Natan Sharansky after the families had been reunited in Israel. He added that the Jewish Agency was determined to help any other Jews from Yemen who wished to come to Israel to do so.

Since 2009, 151 Yemeni Jews have arrived in Israel, including the group on Wednesday. Since the beginning of this year, 45 Yemeni Jews have relocated to Israel. According to Jewish Agency estimates, fewer than 90 Jews remain in Yemen today and about half of them live in a guarded structure in the capital, Sa’ana. - source

Your "liberal Jewish spirit" could use a liberal dose of education on the plight of Jews in that country.

 

[Levite]

How nice to know that one can live a deeply Jewish life without being "steeped in Jewish literature (including traditional text), art, and music, are thoroughly grounded in Jewish history, and have a nuanced and diverse sense of Jewish cultures, …" and still (in the right time and place) meet your strict standards.

I never claimed that one could not live a deeply Jewish life without being thoroughly grounded in Jewish literature, art, music, etc. What I said was that if one did no observances, did not engage with the Jewish community as a practicing Jew, but instead specifically claimed the mantle of cultural Judaism-- then they should actually be steeped in Jewish culture, or their claim on the mantle of cultural Judaism was hypocritical.

The Jewish communities you are citing not only were predominately observant, but spoke Jewish languages (Yiddish and Judaeo-Arabic), lived lives according to Jewish customs, and lived very much in Jewish culture. Even those who were poor and illiterate had Jewish music and went to synagogue on Shabbat or festivals; many even of the illiterate managed to learn a little Torah, and when they could not, it was usually not by choice, but as a result of the circumstances of their poverty.

That life in no way parallels the lives of assimilated middle-class and wealthy Jews in America today who have limitless opportunities to learn and connect with Jewish culture, and instead simply call themselves cultural Jews because they still like to order matzah ball soup at the non-kosher "Jewish-style" deli before they have their meat and cheese sandwich, or because they put blue and white ornaments on their Christmas tree, or because they like Barbra Streisand.

 

[metis]

With Motown's bankruptcy moving forward, the most profitable company left in Detroit might be Einstein Bagels. Do you think they will take over the Big 3 (Big 2 with Chrysler finished) ?

No, but I understand Goodyear and Firestone are planning to use their leftover bagels.


On the serious side, I wouldn't count Chrysler out as apparently Fiat, the last time I heard, is thinking about closing their Italian headquarters and moving out to Auburn Hills, largely because they're doing better here than in Europe.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I found the Jewish Daily Forward article "Don't Believe in God? Come Aboard!" relevant.

 

[punkdbass]

Awesome read, highly relevant to this discussion. Thanks Jay. I liked these quotes a lot:

On defining oneself as Jewish

And most [Jews], in fact, explicitly state that what they love about becoming Jewish is that there isn’t one definition of Jewishness; that Jewish discourse requires critical thinking and dissent; and that one’s faith (or lack thereof) is as much a source of self-examination as any other aspect of one’s identity

Read more: Don't Believe in God? Come Aboard!

On "conversion" vs. "Citizenship".... faith vs culture

I’ll grant that “conversion” is not a great word. It is borrowed from other religious traditions, which privilege the centrality of a “conversionary” experience (think Paul on the road to Damascus) that Judaism is inherently skeptical of...So maybe it’s not “conversion” per se but a citizenship. That’s what I tell people, anyway. You study for a period of time, you demonstrate knowledge and loyalty, you get to become a citizen. That’s how we do it in America and I would argue that this is what the sages had in mind when they created the process....But the notion of separating faith and culture when dealing with Judaism, Jews and Jewish civilization, is like making a kugel without eggs. It doesn’t work.

Read more: Don't Believe in God? Come Aboard!

One issue that I would like to add to this discussion is the following: The major thing about Liberal Judaism that is a turn off to me, at least in the forms I've experienced it, is a huge downplay of faith. What role does faith play in the increasing liberalized Judaism of the US? I have a very, very hard time answering this question. Partly because I've lived in small towns my whole life with not a whole lot of exposure to Jewish life(this will change next year for grad school, Im so excited!!). So if you think I'm being ignorant, I admit I am since I'm sure there are tons of very liberal/Reform Jews out there who put immense value on "faith" - I just have yet to really meet any of them lol. But the reason why I think this issue is relevant to the discussion, is often Jews who don't want to talk about faith will consider themselves "cultural/ethnic" Jews but not "religious" Jews (i.e. lets not talk about faith and God now)... it really bothers me that faith and God plays such a little a little role for these types of liberal/Reform Judaisms... it's such a private matter compared to Christians who often publicly proclaim immense value of faith and God. Yes I realize I'm overgeneralizing here but hopefully you get my point. The question of - what does the role of faith play for a liberal, Reform Jew of the US has perplexed me a lot recently.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I rather liked citizen versus convert since it highlights the centrality of peoplehood.

At the same time, I'm not at all sure what "liberalized Judaism" might mean. I do know that many, many Jews who identify with the Reform Movement have an abiding belief in God and deeply value Jewish narrative and Jewish ritual.

 

[metis]

The question of - what does the role of faith play for a liberal, Reform Jew of the US has perplexed me a lot recently.

A great deal. I've been to a fair number of Reform shuls, including my own, and the issue of faith permeates the teachings and the services. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how you've not seen this, unless you're just referring to individual Jews who may not feel that free to discuss certain things to strangers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

One image that immediately comes to mind is that of my wife joining many, many other female Reform/Liberal Jews at the kotel.

 

[Caladan]

Interesting post punkdbass. However faith is much more generic than being dependent on specific religious formulas, or supernatural beliefs.
Powerful notions of faith can come in various ways. Faith in our integrity as Jews. Faith in our people. Faith in our own honor as individual people, and upholding that honor. Even faith in the materializing of the prophetic visions of our forefathers, which to me do not have to be dependent on any supernatural factors, but instead on our own resilience during certain regional or global conditions. As Jews we have a strong ethos, and this ethos generates strong faith.

 

[punkdbass]

Great posts guys, those were all things I needed and wanted to hear. "Faith" has always been a very difficult/confusing thing for me, so like I said, please excuse my ignorance on the subject lol. I do feel that lately, for the first time in my life I am finally starting to find some real faith though, and I'm very happy for that.. and your posts have helped to remind me that the faith I am starting to see in myself, I have seen many times before in the members of the Reform synagogues I have been at.

 

[Avi1001]

One issue that I would like to add to this discussion is the following: The major thing about Liberal Judaism that is a turn off to me, at least in the forms I've experienced it, is a huge downplay of faith. What role does faith play in the increasing liberalized Judaism of the US? I have a very, very hard time answering this question. Partly because I've lived in small towns my whole life with not a whole lot of exposure to Jewish life(this will change next year for grad school, Im so excited!!). So if you think I'm being ignorant, I admit I am since I'm sure there are tons of very liberal/Reform Jews out there who put immense value on "faith" - I just have yet to really meet any of them lol. But the reason why I think this issue is relevant to the discussion, is often Jews who don't want to talk about faith will consider themselves "cultural/ethnic" Jews but not "religious" Jews (i.e. lets not talk about faith and God now)... it really bothers me that faith and God plays such a little a little role for these types of liberal/Reform Judaisms... it's such a private matter compared to Christians who often publicly proclaim immense value of faith and God. Yes I realize I'm overgeneralizing here but hopefully you get my point. The question of - what does the role of faith play for a liberal, Reform Jew of the US has perplexed me a lot recently.

Lots of good thoughts and ideas, as usual, punkdbass. You have a great sense for finding the right questions. So please stick with it.

I am a liberal Jew who will confess to having little faith. But I do agree with a quote from the article that Jay posted:

"A non-Jew once came to Hillel the Elder and asked to be taught the essence of Torah. “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. All the rest is commentary. Go forth and learn,” he responded."

If that is faith in Torah, I guess I have it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"A non-Jew once came to Hillel the Elder and asked to be taught the essence of Torah. “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. All the rest is commentary. Go forth and learn,” he responded."

If that is faith in Torah, I guess I have it.

Do you understand the difference between "essence of Torah" and "faith in Torah."?

 

[Avi1001]

Do you understand the difference between "essence of Torah" and "faith in Torah."?

No, I am not sure. Nor do I understand the essence of your question, but I have faith that there is some constructive meaning.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you understand the difference between "essence of Torah" and "faith in Torah."?

No, I am not sure.

Thanks. That explains much.

 

[Tumah]

I would say the exact opposite of Levite.

The religion and the culture are two distinct things.
There are sephardi Jews and Ashkenazi Jews. Both follow virtually the exact same Laws yet have very distinct cultures.

I would say that Jewish cultures are the customs not related to the religious Law that arose through exposure to the neighboring cultures and as a result of the times. For instance, eating gefilte fish and talking with your thumbs is part of the Jewish European culture. Ululating Shabbos tunes is an aspect of Sephardic culture. Arak will always be found on the Morrocan Shabbos table.

It could be that eating chulent/chamin on Shabbos might be a universal Jewish culture because the custom is present in all Jewish cultures (eg. Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Yemenite, Morrocan, etc.). One explanation that I have heard is that it arose in the Second Temple period as a response to the Sadducees. They didn't believe in the Oral Torah and therefore did not have a fire burning on Shabbos. The Pharisaical understanding though allowed for a fire to burn under certain conditions. So it became a custom to eat some form of warm food as a way of showing allegiance to the Pharisees.

If this is true then we've been eating chulent long before most of the world became monotheistic.

 

[Avi1001]

I would say the exact opposite of Levite.

Just what we needed, another troublemaker .

So, what do you think about a Hindu Hamentashen fresser ?

 

[Tumah]

Just what we needed, another troublemaker .

So, what do you think about a Hindu Hamentashen fresser ?

Is there anything less relevant to an Indian Hindu than eating a cookie representing the downfall of a Persian officer something like 2200 years ago?

Well, besides chulent I mean.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It could be that eating chulent/chamin on Shabbos might be a universal Jewish culture because the custom is present in all Jewish cultures (eg. Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Yemenite, Morrocan, etc.). One explanation that I have heard is that it arose in the Second Temple period as a response to the Sadducees. They didn't believe in the Oral Torah and therefore did not have a fire burning on Shabbos. The Pharisaical understanding though allowed for a fire to burn under certain conditions. So it became a custom to eat some form of warm food as a way of showing allegiance to the Pharisees.

Interesting. Thanks.

… and boker tov​

 

[Tumah]

… and boker tov​

Not for me. Almost Shabbos here.