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Jewish culture

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Peter, I am completely fine with your hypothetical Hindu calling herself a Jew whether she eats one hamentaschen per week or a ham and cheese. That is what is meant by an "open tent philosophy". What possible rationale could I have for not accepting her wish to follow any religion she chooses ? How would you feel if someone told you that you are not sufficiently observant to call yourself a Jew ? Is there some minimum criteria that she must pass to consider herself a Jew ? I must say, I am a bit puzzled by this "good old boys approach", that might seek to exclude her from "the club".




Avi,

Maybe it's me, but I have no idea exactly what you mean by an "open tent philosophy to Judaism" and I am totally bewildered by what you refer to as "the outdated, good old boys club approach."

Based upon your second paragraph, if I am getting the gist of it, there could be a woman who is a Hindu who goes into a deli in New York, eats her first hamentaschen, likes it, and declares herself therefore to a Jew.

You seem to be saying that from that point onward - based on her declaration that she is a Jew, even though she does nothing further to learn about Jews and Judaism, has no involvement with the Jewish community but does thereafter eat one hamentaschen a week- she should be recognized and accepted as a Jew.

Peter
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Peter, I am completely fine with your hypothetical Hindu calling herself a Jew whether she eats one hamentaschen per week or a ham and cheese. That is what is meant by an "open tent philosophy". What possible rationale could I have for not accepting her wish to follow any religion she chooses ?
That was silly bordering on incoherent -- and a near comical bastardization of the terms 'Jew' and 'philosophy' alike.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Thanks for the above, and the issue of "traditional Judaism" I'll give short shrift to because that's pretty much off-topic.

If someone says "I'm a "traditional Jew", I pretty much know where they're coming from, which is neither intrinsically good or bad in my book. But where I do have trouble with "traditional Judaism" is that it all too often is used to demean other approaches, and I don't see much positive coming out of that kind of stance.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on "traditional Judaism". I agree, and in addition feel that some traditionalists are exclusionary and elitist.

Because of my anthropology background, I tend to take fairly long-term views on many subjects, so the question I would have to someone using that terminology would tend to be something like "Which Judaism is actually 'traditional' overall?". My point would be that all religions change over time, and Judaism has done much the same; plus all religions will continue to change over time, and I suspect Judaism will do much the same.
I am very encouraged by the diversity that has evolved in the Jewish movements. I think that the newer, reform movements bring a great deal of rationality to the religion.

If Judaism had remained totally static, it likely would have disappeared over time, but what's remarkable about it is that it's actually quite flexible. We well know that interpretation and application has been viewed as being variable, but also that other innovations have come in and become absorbed at least by some, and that also has been variable.

That's right, the dinosaurs were traditionalists.

For example, a thousand years ago, who would have thought we'd now have female rabbis? We see it in the various reform movements, but now even some orthodox are tampering with the idea, and some feel it's only time before we some being admitted as such in at least some orthodox shuls.
I think it is great having female rabbis. I also really appreciate the emphasis of following the ethical and moral Halacha.

We also have to remember that bar mitzvahs didn't always exist, and that the Talmud was not given en toto at Sinai. The chasidim as we know them today didn't exist a thousand years ago, and they were not too welcome when they first appeared by many of the orthodox. And then there's Kabbalah, as interpreted by Madonna. :banghead3.

I think the story of Revelation is one of the biggest non-starters of traditional Judaism. Of course the Torah was G-d inspired, traditional thinking is often literalist.

So, to conclude, which branch or concept of Judaism is "traditional"? None-- we're all a "work in progress".

Agreed ! I believe the more change the better !
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
What does it take for you to see as valid that someone says s/he is "culturally jew"?

Good question. You can see from the responses on this thread that some people despise cultural Jews. I think at some level they are threatened by the freedom of thought that cultural religion brings. This thread has been a beacon of light shining on that hatred. I think we should all step back and pray for them.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Good question. You can see from the responses on this thread that some people despise cultural Jews. I think at some level they are threatened by the freedom of thought that cultural religion brings. This thread has been a beacon of light shining on that hatred. I think we should all step back and pray for them.

I didnt saw anyone despising cultural jews, though maybe I missed it.

I can understand Levite's point, so now I am trying to understand yours (of each of you, that you may want to share)

His point is really understandable. To my understanding at least, he is simply begging the question on how jewish one is simply because of eating bagels and lox. I certainly wouldnt say someone is culturally ecuadorian just because they like to wear panama hats (yes, I know that sounded confusing, but ecuador was actually the one inventing the "panama" hats. Panama was simply the first to commercialize them as important so the name sticked with them :eek: )

Then again, I have no interest on debating from levits perspective, as my interest here is to understand the different perspectives coming from different jews.

:)
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I didnt saw anyone despising cultural jews, though maybe I missed it.
Indeed, it takes a keen eye to observe this.

I can understand Levite's point, so now I am trying to understand yours (of each of you, that you may want to share)
Good, I like that, an open mind.

His point is really understandable. To my understanding at least, he is simply begging the question on how jewish one is simply because of eating bagels and lox. I certainly wouldnt say someone is culturally ecuadorian just because they like to wear panama hats (yes, I know that sounded confusing, but ecuador was actually the one inventing the "panama" hats. Panama was simply the first to commercialize them as important so the name sticked with them :eek: )

Ok, lets accept your premise and try to prove the fallacy of the converse. This requires an understanding of the necessary vs. sufficient. Lets agree that anyone wearing Panama hats is an ignorant lout, and could not possibly be a cultural Ecuadorian. Ok ? So, what qualifies one as a cultural Ecuadorian ? How many books did they have to read ? How many plays did they have to attend ? Can I have the specifications that qualifies them as cultural Ecuadorians, please ?

And, finally, I very much enjoy bagels and lox, and I am a cultural Jew. I have also been a student of Talmud for 7 years and study with an advanced Talmud group. Do I pass ? Or do I need to see more Jewish plays ?



Then again, I have no interest on debating from levits perspective, as my interest here is to understand the different perspectives coming from different jews.
:)

No worries, Me Myself, I consider you every bit the cultural Ecuadorian, Panama hat and all.
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
Indeed, it takes a keen eye to observe this.


Good, I like that, an open mind.



Ok, lets accept your premise and try to prove the fallacy of the converse. This requires an understanding of the necessary vs. sufficient. Lets agree that anyone wearing Panama hats is an ignorant lout, and could not possibly be a cultural Ecuadorian. Ok ? So, what qualifies one as a cultural Ecuadorian ? How many books did they have to read ? How many plays did they have to attend ? Can I have the specifications that qualifies them as cultural Ecuadorians, please ?

And, finally, I very much enjoy bagels and lox, and I am a cultural Jew. I have also been a student of Talmud for 7 years and study with an advanced Talmud group. Do I pass ? Or do I need to see more Jewish plays ?





No worries, Me Myself, I consider you every bit the cultural Ecuadorian, Panama hat and all.

I never said anyone with panama hats was completely devoid of any ecuadorian cultural knowledge.

I was saying simply liking panama hats does not make you ecuadorian on my book.

If a french guy who doesnt know spanish, doesnt know absolutely anything about ecuador and has never set foot on ecuador decides he is culturally ecuadorian simply because he likes panama hats, in my opinion, most likely than not I would not at all seen him as such.

Its naturally a subjective matter and in general I am very bad at these nationality things and such so it would be hard for me to tell you.

The only thing I can tell you is that simply liking panama hats a lot does not by any stretch of the imagination make you "culturally ecuadorian" on MY book. (We are assuming you either dont know almost anything else about the country, language, history, art, has never set foot in it and anything that you know of as an "ecuadorian habit" you do not partake in it because you dontcare about it or dont like it.. The only ecuadorian thing of you is liking and wearing panama hats)

Mind you, I dont see absolutely nothing wrong with non ecuadorians of course :D and trust me I dont see anytng particularly good on being "culturally ecuadorian" (or bad for that matter.) nor I feel my "membership" of ecuadorianess as even terribly important to me. Its just that simply liking panama hats being equated to being an ecuadorian is silly to me.

So that would be my perspective on it. If you wanted to ask me which things I like about ecuador and are part of its cutlure, I would say some food (bolones de verde! :drool: ) I love quema de años viejos which is a sort of ritual at the end of the year... Hummm... I like my language and its accents, which are different in one part of ecuador from another or of course other spanish speaking countries. Most or all of my memories are here.

Id say both language and most of all of my memories being here with my people (my close friends, etc) is the top of it. And truly bolones de verde! :D

I dont even care for panama hats :D
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Peter, I am completely fine with your hypothetical Hindu calling herself a Jew whether she eats one hamentaschen per week or a ham and cheese. That is what is meant by an "open tent philosophy". What possible rationale could I have for not accepting her wish to follow any religion she chooses ? How would you feel if someone told you that you are not sufficiently observant to call yourself a Jew ? Is there some minimum criteria that she must pass to consider herself a Jew ? I must say, I am a bit puzzled by this "good old boys approach", that might seek to exclude her from "the club".

Wow not even my younger sister who i consider about as indifferent about Judaism as possible would ever say something like that.

Honestly why do you care at all about being Jewish? It all seems pretty redundant doesnt it?
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Honestly why do you care at all about being Jewish? It all seems pretty redundant doesnt it?

I have a number of reasons that I identify strongly with Judaism. Perhaps someday we will discuss them. None are redundant.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
And it would be ideal if every Jew had a thorough knowledge of science, and it would be ideal if every Jew had a thorough knowledge of first aid, and it would be ideal if …

Would you be OK with a person who had no knowledge of science, or any indication of wanting to engage in scientific study referring to themselves as a scientist? Or if a person who had no knowledge of first aid saying they were qualified to administer first aid?

It seems that all Levite is saying is that a person who fails to demonstrate any interest in doing anything Jewish can hardly be called Jewish. He's not saying there is a minimum requirement needed for a person to call themselves Jewish, but simply that those who make no effort to learn anything about Jews and those things that are in Jewish history are difficult to understand. After all, if you don't do or know anything Jewish, how can you call yourself Jewish? On what basis does a person with no knowledge or concern of anything Jewish make the distinction between that which is Jewish and that which is not? It would seem such people frivolously use the word just because it's a nice word without feeling the need for their to be any substance behind its use.

Peter, I am completely fine with your hypothetical Hindu calling herself a Jew whether she eats one hamentaschen per week or a ham and cheese. That is what is meant by an "open tent philosophy". What possible rationale could I have for not accepting her wish to follow any religion she chooses ? How would you feel if someone told you that you are not sufficiently observant to call yourself a Jew ? Is there some minimum criteria that she must pass to consider herself a Jew ? I must say, I am a bit puzzled by this "good old boys approach", that might seek to exclude her from "the club".

Definitions are, by their very nature, exclusive. The whole purpose of distinctly defining a thing is to differentiate it from other things. The notion of something being Jewish necessarily includes that the something be distinguished from other things in a particularly Jewish way.



Ok, lets accept your premise and try to prove the fallacy of the converse. This requires an understanding of the necessary vs. sufficient. Lets agree that anyone wearing Panama hats is an ignorant lout, and could not possibly be a cultural Ecuadorian. Ok ? So, what qualifies one as a cultural Ecuadorian ? How many books did they have to read ? How many plays did they have to attend ? Can I have the specifications that qualifies them as cultural Ecuadorians, please ?

Again, it's not so much that there is a minimum requirement someone has to meet to call themselves Jewish. It's that it is very difficult to understand why someone would distinguish themselves as Jewish when there's nothing Jewish about them, either in practice or the knowledge they have or seek to have obtained.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Good rant. It actually proves my point. We started with Panamanian hats and then find that you also love the food and language of Ecuador. This is really no surprise, because I have no doubt there are many endearing features about Ecuadorian life that you might relate to. Given some nurturing and time, I have no doubt you could grow to be a true cultural Ecuadorian.

Can you see how there might be some analogy to a people that may have been removed from their religious roots by a holocaust ? Does it mean they have no interest in their religion ? No, it does not. Does it mean it might take time, even several generations for these interests in ones roots to re-grow, if they ever do grow back ? I think this might take a long time. Do you know how many first and second generation holocaust survivors there are in U.S. ? Many, indeed, it is not a small group.



I never said anyone with panama hats was completely devoid of any ecuadorian cultural knowledge.
Ime
I was saying simply liking panama hats does not make you ecuadorian on my book.

If a french guy who doesnt know spanish, doesnt know absolutely anything about ecuador and has never set foot on ecuador decides he is culturally ecuadorian simply because he likes panama hats, in my opinion, most likely than not I would not at all seen him as such.

Its naturally a subjective matter and in general I am very bad at these nationality things and such so it would be hard for me to tell you.

The only thing I can tell you is that simply liking panama hats a lot does not by any stretch of the imagination make you "culturally ecuadorian" on MY book. (We are assuming you either dont know almost anything else about the country, language, history, art, has never set foot in it and anything that you know of as an "ecuadorian habit" you do not partake in it because you dontcare about it or dont like it.. The only ecuadorian thing of you is liking and wearing panama hats)

Mind you, I dont see absolutely nothing wrong with non ecuadorians of course :D and trust me I dont see anytng particularly good on being "culturally ecuadorian" (or bad for that matter.) nor I feel my "membership" of ecuadorianess as even terribly important to me. Its just that simply liking panama hats being equated to being an ecuadorian is silly to me.

So that would be my perspective on it. If you wanted to ask me which things I like about ecuador and are part of its cutlure, I would say some food (bolones de verde! :drool: ) I love quema de años viejos which is a sort of ritual at the end of the year... Hummm... I like my language and its accents, which are different in one part of ecuador from another or of course other spanish speaking countries. Most or all of my memories are here.

Id say both language and most of all of my memories being here with my people (my close friends, etc) is the top of it. And truly bolones de verde! :D

I dont even care for panama hats :D
 
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TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Can you see how there might be some analogy to a people that may have been removed from their religious roots by a holocaust ? Does it mean they have no interest in their religion ? No, it does not.

We're not talking about those people. We're talking about people who have no connection to Jewish lineage (having no Jewish heritage), have no understanding of Jewish history, art, culture, language, etc, and who feel inclined to call themselves Jewish.


Admittedly, such a group of people is small. However, enough of these people exist to cause someone who is interested in Jewish culture to question what it is that makes such people define themselves as Jewish when there is no Jewishness to their composition.

You're thinking of an ignorant people who are interested in abating their ignorance. We're talking about an ignorant people who have no interest in reducing that ignorance.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Would you be OK with a person who had no knowledge of science, or any indication of wanting to engage in scientific study referring to themselves as a scientist? Or if a person who had no knowledge of first aid saying they were qualified to administer first aid?

Thank you for injecting some logic back into a thread that had gone astray.

There are people all over the world who have no knowledge of science but who want to engage in scientific study and call themselves scientists. They are students.

It seems that all Levite is saying is that a person who fails to demonstrate any interest in doing anything Jewish can hardly be called Jewish. He's not saying there is a minimum requirement needed for a person to call themselves Jewish, but simply that those who make no effort to learn anything about Jews and those things that are in Jewish history are difficult to understand. After all, if you don't do or know anything Jewish, how can you call yourself Jewish? On what basis does a person with no knowledge or concern of anything Jewish make the distinction between that which is Jewish and that which is not? It would seem such people frivolously use the word just because it's a nice word without feeling the need for their to be any substance behind its use.

Yes, we all understand Levite's point. But what Levite neglects in his analysis is that every individual has a different set of reasons for identifying or not identifying with Judaism. What if Rabbio's hypothetical hamentaschen Hindu starts eating kosher food and the people she meets at the deli invite her to a Torah study ? In five years, she might have the Judaic knowledge of R. Akiva, but Levite would have dismissed her from the onset as not even being a cultural Jew. I know this is true, because I have experienced such an evolution (except I do not have the knowledge of R. Akiva).

Definitions are, by their very nature, exclusive. The whole purpose of distinctly defining a thing is to differentiate it from other things. The notion of something being Jewish necessarily includes that the something be distinguished from other things in a particularly Jewish way.

Yes, this is true, but as Metis pointed out, we cannot consider only the static case. Experiencing religion is a dynamic process.

Again, it's not so much that there is a minimum requirement someone has to meet to call themselves Jewish. It's that it is very difficult to understand why someone would distinguish themselves as Jewish when there's nothing Jewish about them, either in practice or the knowledge they have or seek to have obtained.

Being difficult to understand someone's reasoning is different from their not having a reason. If someone considers themself a cultural Jew, I give them the benefit of the doubt that they have a reason. Not doing so is arrogant, disrespectful and ignorant.

Do you think from this brief exchange, I have a full understanding of your motivation to be a Jewish Guardian of Life ? Enough understanding to judge whether you are a true Jewish Guardian of Life, or just a cultural Jew on his own religious path ?
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
What does it take for you to see as valid that someone says s/he is "culturally jew"?
Good question. You can see from the responses on this thread that some people despise cultural Jews.
What ignorant drivel and pathetic distortion.

Me Myself
It was, indeed, a good question. Perhaps this from wiki might help …
Cultural Judaism encourages individual thought and understanding in Judaism. Its relation to Judaism is through the history, civilization, ethical values and shared experiences of the Jewish people. Cultural Jews connect to their heritage through the languages, literature, art, dance, music, food, and celebrations of the Jewish people. For example, Jews who identify only with their particular culture may call themselves Cultural Jews. There is no singular Jewish culture or ethnicity to claim as a Jewish Culture. This is because there are Jews of many different cultures; distinctly Jewish in their religious observances their cultural practices were influenced by the country in which the practices arose. For example, there are differences in the culture of Jews in Ashkenazi, or Eastern European communities from those in Sephardi, or Spanish influenced Jewish communities, but both Ashkenazi and Sephardi are Jewish cultures. In studying Jewish culture, the Jewish languages often give a clue as to the source of the culture influencing the different Jewish customs arising in the Diaspora.
Avi1001
Your silly ad hominem aside, the fact remains that:
  1. allowing a term like 'Jew' or 'Judaism' to mean virtually anything condemns it to mean virtually nothing,
  2. what characterizes pluralism is not a persistent lack of discernment, and
  3. obsequious accommodationism is not a core Jewish value.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What does it take for you to see as valid that someone says s/he is "culturally jew"?

There really isn't some magic line that can be drawn, which tends to leave open some rather arbitrary and subjective opinions.

To me, if a person say "I'm a Jew", I'll tend to take them at their word unless there's some substantial reason why I should think otherwise. Even if I were to end up disagreeing with them, so what?

However, there are times when decisions have to be made, such as rules dealing with conversion and also the "law of return" in Israel. Generally speaking, we make decisions as a group depending on circumstances. At Sinai, Moses essentially set up courts, and that process has continued through this day.

As far as "cultural Jews" are concerned, you simply are not going to find agreed upon criteria as you see being played out here-- after all, we're Jews.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Good rant. It actually proves my point. We started with Panamanian hats and then find that you also love the food and language of Ecuador. This is really no surprise, because I have no doubt there are many endearing features about Ecuadorian life that you might relate to. Given some nurturing and time, I have no doubt you could grow to be a true cultural Ecuadorian.

Can you see how there might be some analogy to a people that may have been removed from their religious roots by a holocaust ? Does it mean they have no interest in their religion ? No, it does not. Does it mean it might take time, even several generations for these interests in ones roots to re-grow, if they ever do grow back ? I think this might take a long time. Do you know how many first and second generation holocaust survivors there are in U.S. ? Many, indeed, it is not a small group.

I dont follow at all what you are saying.

So to summarize your point, to you, liking one jewish food and calling oneself "culturally jewish" is pretty much enough for one to be a cultural jew, yes?



What ignorant drivel and pathetic distortion.

Me Myself
It was, indeed, a good question. Perhaps this from wiki might help …
Cultural Judaism encourages individual thought and understanding in Judaism. Its relation to Judaism is through the history, civilization, ethical values and shared experiences of the Jewish people. Cultural Jews connect to their heritage through the languages, literature, art, dance, music, food, and celebrations of the Jewish people. For example, Jews who identify only with their particular culture may call themselves Cultural Jews. There is no singular Jewish culture or ethnicity to claim as a Jewish Culture. This is because there are Jews of many different cultures; distinctly Jewish in their religious observances their cultural practices were influenced by the country in which the practices arose. For example, there are differences in the culture of Jews in Ashkenazi, or Eastern European communities from those in Sephardi, or Spanish influenced Jewish communities, but both Ashkenazi and Sephardi are Jewish cultures. In studying Jewish culture, the Jewish languages often give a clue as to the source of the culture influencing the different Jewish customs arising in the Diaspora.
Avi1001
Your silly ad hominem aside, the fact remains that:
  1. allowing a term like 'Jew' or 'Judaism' to mean virtually anything condemns it to mean virtually nothing,
  2. what characterizes pluralism is not a persistent lack of discernment, and
  3. obsequious accommodationism is not a core Jewish value.

Wow, I truly wouldnt have imagined there to be a wiki for cultural jew, I ll check that out :D

Interestingly it talks mostly about what Levite said. Knowing language, art, story of the jewish people is what makes one a cultural jew on that definition.

Would you agree with that?

There really isn't some magic line that can be drawn, which tends to leave open some rather arbitrary and subjective opinions.

To me, if a person say "I'm a Jew", I'll tend to take them at their word unless there's some substantial reason why I should think otherwise. Even if I were to end up disagreeing with them, so what?

However, there are times when decisions have to be made, such as rules dealing with conversion and also the "law of return" in Israel. Generally speaking, we make decisions as a group depending on circumstances. At Sinai, Moses essentially set up courts, and that process has continued through this day.

As far as "cultural Jews" are concerned, you simply are not going to find agreed upon criteria as you see being played out here-- after all, we're Jews.

Oh no, dont misunderstand me. I am not looking for a consensus, I wouldnt expect that of any group.

I am more than happy with a bunch of different interpretations of what is a cultural jew.

Dont take it as a termometer or an "only way to be" a cultural jew, I would like if you may, that you simply gave me some examples of some people you know who value themselves as cultural jews and what things on their life are what makes them so according to their (or/and) your understanding.

Dat all :)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Interestingly it talks mostly about what Levite said. Knowing language, art, story of the jewish people is what makes one a cultural jew on that definition.

Would you agree with that?
No.

To say that "Cultural Jews connect to their heritage through the languages, literature, art, dance, music, food, and celebrations of the Jewish people" is not at all a claim that the cultural Jew has a substantive knowledge of any or all of these categories, and it is certainly not the same as the cultural chauvinism propounded by Levite.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
There are people all over the world who have no knowledge of science but who want to engage in scientific study and call themselves scientists. They are students.

Even still there is a difference between a person who is pursuing scientific study and someone who is not. These students, if they are engaged in learning more such that they might be scientists, can be reasonably labeled as scientists (or budding scientists). Would it be fair to label someone who is not currently pursuing nor has ever pursued engagement in scientific study as a scientist? Even if they self-identified with it? The goal of such a position on self-labeling is to disallow the free self-labeling as any particular thing just because one feels like it. Sure, I can call myself all sorts of things, however unless I fit into some valid definition of the thing, I am not actually that thing.

I suppose you assume that a person who identifies as Jewish is in some way pursuing a connection with the Jewish people via religion, history, language, art, music, etc. And I can't say I've met someone who considered him/herself a Jew and had no interest in doing or learning anything about Jewishness. At the same time, if a persons says to me "I am a Jew" and there is nothing at all in their actions or language to suggest they know or desire to know anything about Jews, I question it. I may not pose the question to the person, but internally I question it.

As a ger myself I find extreme discomfort in denying a person's Jewishness. At the same time, given that I cherish the Jewish aspect of my identity, I resist blanket approval of anyone who says "I am a Jew" if there's nothing to support that claim. In the case of the hamentaschen-eating Hindu, I would question why she eats the hamentaschen? Is it because she likes its taste? Is it because she feels a deep connection to the Jewish people and that weekly hamentaschen is her only way of expressing it? It's far too complex to boil down to simplicities, but it doesn't mean that we should consider anyone and everyone who considers himself/herself a <insert something here> that thing.


Yes, we all understand Levite's point. But what Levite neglects in his analysis is that every individual has a different set of reasons for identifying or not identifying with Judaism. What if Rabbio's hypothetical hamentaschen Hindu starts eating kosher food and the people she meets at the deli invite her to a Torah study ? In five years, she might have the Judaic knowledge of R. Akiva, but Levite would have dismissed her from the onset as not even being a cultural Jew. I know this is true, because I have experienced such an evolution (except I do not have the knowledge of R. Akiva).

I don't read Levite's post as suggesting that he would reject the Jewishness of a claimant, but merely that he finds it odd that someone with no connection to Jewishness might consider himself a Jew. I don't see his claims about what a Jew "should be" as his opinion of what constitutes a Jew. After all, that definition would exclude many people who are, halakhically, Jews. Knowing Levite relatively well I doubt he would be so stringent as to go beyond halakha in defining what a Jew is.

Being difficult to understand someone's reasoning is different from their not having a reason. If someone considers themself a cultural Jew, I give them the benefit of the doubt that they have a reason. Not doing so is arrogant, disrespectful and ignorant.

Giving the benefit of the doubt, for anything, is faith-work at play. At the very least, make no conclusions about the validity of the claim until further evidence has been presented and analyzed. In practice that means we shouldn't deny those who claim to be Jewish from enjoying participation in Jewish practice. It also means that if the claimant wishes to marry a Jew, and wants that marriage to be halakhically valid, they demonstrate that they are halakhically Jewish.

Ultimately, I suppose, it depends on what the goal is in their making of the claim.
 
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