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Jesus was in union with God...can we be also?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The OP is speaking in absolutes as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, and when people say the word God they are speaking of the Absolute. Can one be one with the Absolute? Well, yes, of course. How can anything not be within the Absolute and the Absolute still be Absolute? Whether or not you are aware of it in your conscious mind is the only question.

I think you should look at it from others perspective, we're just saying "prove it".
Prove what? What I realize about the nature of myself and all existence? Sure. Open your eyes and look for yourself. I can't prove something that is everything. If you can't see what is everything, then there is no proving if you're looking and not seeing. Prove light to the blind, or sound to the deaf.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
I understand JW's don't believe Jesus was God. However, when God sent the angel to deliver Jesus into the womb of Mary he sent himself to be born of a Jewish girl of the house of David.
Jesus was born in the flesh being the seed of God in the womb of woman.

Jesus was God.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


The holy scriptures shows us that yes we can be one with the Father as Jesus is.The reason why is because Jesus is not God incarnate.Jesus was speaking of a spiritual union,not a literal one.This can be verified in John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

You see,if Jesus literally meant that they were all one, then, all of them would be part of the holy Trinity according to this logic.We can clearly see from this text that it was meant symbolically,not literally.When Jesus said he and the Father are one,Jesus was saying that he and the Father are in agreement and Jesus is Gods representative on earth.Jesus did what God commanded him to do.Its is a spiritual union.Thats why it says in the HS that Jesus is "the exact representation of his being.."
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
Certainly. We were in the beginning created from the dust of the earth that God created by his will. Made in the image and likeness. We can never be separated from God.
 
I understand JW's don't believe Jesus was God. However, when God sent the angel to deliver Jesus into the womb of Mary he sent himself to be born of a Jewish girl of the house of David.
Jesus was born in the flesh being the seed of God in the womb of woman.

Jesus was God.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Yes I understand many peoples position with the John 1:1 scripture.Theres a misconception many have about it.It's a lot to get into but let me say this.There are many scriptures that prove that Jesus is not God.Such as the one I sent you,John 17:21.
Also:
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

God does not have a God.He is the Almighty.

In Matthew 24:36 it says,
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If Jesus was God,he would have known the appointed time of the end.

In Matthew 26:39 it shows Jesus falling down to his face and asking God in prayer for permission to remove the task at hand from him if possible.God does not fall to His face and pray.Prayer is something humans do for asking and making petitions.

We can conclude from just these scriptures that Jesus is not God the Almighty.

If you notice in Isaiah 9:6 it calls Jesus Mighty God.Jesus is never called Almighty God.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
A thoughtful post. Thank you. :)

Do you remember in the old testament where Moshe (Moses) asked God his name? And God said, I am that I am?

See, John 8:58 :hug:

Yes I understand many peoples position with the John 1:1 scripture.Theres a misconception many have about it.It's a lot to get into but let me say this.There are many scriptures that prove that Jesus is not God.Such as the one I sent you,John 17:21.
Also:
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

God does not have a God.He is the Almighty.

In Matthew 24:36 it says,
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If Jesus was God,he would have known the appointed time of the end.

In Matthew 26:39 it shows Jesus falling down to his face and asking God in prayer for permission to remove the task at hand from him if possible.God does not fall to His face and pray.Prayer is something humans do for asking and making petitions.

We can conclude from just these scriptures that Jesus is not God the Almighty.

If you notice in Isaiah 9:6 it calls Jesus Mighty God.Jesus is never called Almighty God.
 
A thoughtful post. Thank you. :)

Do you remember in the old testament where Moshe (Moses) asked God his name? And God said, I am that I am?

See, John 8:58 :hug:
Yes.God was telling Moses that He causes to become.This is what Yahweh means.Gods name Yahweh,Yehowah,Jehovah means "He causes to become." This passage has nothing to do with John 8:58

In John 8:58 Jesus is explaining to the Jews that before Abraham, he existed.It has nothing to do with identity.It has to do with age and existence.

Read this. "John 8:58:
RS reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e·go′ ei·mi′].’” (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read “I am,” some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title “I Am.”) However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.)
Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (Joh 8 verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e·go′ ei·mi′ as a title to the holy spirit.
Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: “The verb [ei·mi′] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go′ ei·mi′] (Jo.Joh 8:58).”—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

See also NW appendix, 1984 Reference edition, pp. 1582, 1583.


Trinity — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
Some angels don't have names-
"Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the Lord,What is your name, so that we may honor you when your word comes true?
He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding" (Judges 13:17/18)


So to think that God has a name is disrespectful to him and a little satanic because it reduces him to human terms.
The word Yahweh/Jehovah simply translates as 'I am'.
Moses asked God straight out what his name was and he replied-
"I AM THAT I AM: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Exodus 3:13:14)

at 3:45-
[youtube]U0Mg-eZqEdI[/youtube]
 
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King James Bible
Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
I'm not a fan of the book of John, as pretty as it is. It was written last and most likely embellished, as it is not one of the synoptic gospels. I think what people call the holy spirit is God in us. Jesus was a mystic and had more of a connection with God though.
 
I'm not a fan of the book of John, as pretty as it is. It was written last and most likely embellished, as it is not one of the synoptic gospels. I think what people call the holy spirit is God in us. Jesus was a mystic and had more of a connection with God though.
John was inspired by God's holy Spirit to write the books he did.This includes The Book of Revelation.The holy spirit is Gods active force.Jesus was not a mystic.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm not a fan of the book of John, as pretty as it is. It was written last and most likely embellished, as it is not one of the synoptic gospels.

And also tend to I believe that the tone of what we read in John's gospel reflects changes that already were occurring in the early church, particularly reflecting a less Jewish/more gentile approach.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
In your belief system, how did Mary conceive Yeshua?


Yes I understand many peoples position with the John 1:1 scripture.Theres a misconception many have about it.It's a lot to get into but let me say this.There are many scriptures that prove that Jesus is not God.Such as the one I sent you,John 17:21.
Also:
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

God does not have a God.He is the Almighty.

In Matthew 24:36 it says,
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If Jesus was God,he would have known the appointed time of the end.

In Matthew 26:39 it shows Jesus falling down to his face and asking God in prayer for permission to remove the task at hand from him if possible.God does not fall to His face and pray.Prayer is something humans do for asking and making petitions.

We can conclude from just these scriptures that Jesus is not God the Almighty.

If you notice in Isaiah 9:6 it calls Jesus Mighty God.Jesus is never called Almighty God.
 
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

John 17:20, 21

20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

What are your thoughts?

Spiritual revelations or experiences are possible through anyone's spiritual interaction with the Spirit of God.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
My belief system is that of Christianity.So according to Gods Word in the holy scriptures, Jesus was placed in Mary's womb by God,by way of holy spirit.
Then being the seed of Jesus was the essence of God primarily, using woman as a vehicle because she did not need to ovulate per normal for Gods will to be done, how can Jesus then not be God incarnate?
 
Then being the seed of Jesus was the essence of God primarily, using woman as a vehicle because she did not need to ovulate per normal for Gods will to be done, how can Jesus then not be God incarnate?
Because God is eternal and has never been created.Jesus was created.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
With one who takes a naturalistic approach, we all are in union with God.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

John 17:20, 21

20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

What are your thoughts?


It is Christian belief that we share in the life of the Trinity through grace, God's self gift.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

I think it's the whole idea. The story about Jesus isn't about Jesus but about us. I believe that the Gospel story never really was about making some historical document, but rather it was to wrap an idea into a story and by reading it, hopefully the reader can travel the same journey and become a Jesus (like becoming a Buddha). It's learning and transformation through experience. Salvation, being born again, is about you and me waking up to the Jesus-nature.
 
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