• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus was in union with God...can we be also?

starlite

Texasgirl
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

John 17:20, 21

20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

What are your thoughts?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I would tend to agree that this is very possible, especially since I don't see Jesus saying he is the Father but that he's pretty much on the same page as the Father.
 

ions

Member
I would believe it is so. This is the essence of Gaudiya Vaishnavism: "Achintya Bheda Abheda", which means simultaneous and inconceivable oneness and difference (with God).

In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says:
"I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire.." 9.17

"The knower, who is ever in constant union with Me, whose devotion is concentrated on Me, loves Me perfectly and is My beloved... The knower is just like Myself (ātmaiva), situated in union with Me (yuktātmā) " 7.17-18

IMHO, despite all the differences people love to highlight between 'religions', I find the closer one looks the more consistent and complementary scriptures seem to be.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
How do you define "union"?

No one, and/or, no being is divine other than the one G-D.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The notion of an union with god or with all things is found in most religions I know of in one form or another. The Abrahamic religions, however, tend to describe it as something less than an absolutely full union, since they deny an absolutely full union would be possible. From a certain standpoint, this is their most serious flaw as religions. For as D. T. Suzuki put it, without the possibility of an absolute union, one is left with permanent alienation: Man against god, man against nature, man against man, man against himself. At least, that is, on the deepest levels. Or, so Suzuki thought. I'm not sure whether I entirely agree with Suzuki or not.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Most diffidently, I don't see myself separate from God or the Source at all, Jesus was only am example.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I believe our spirits come from and are of God.

This does not make us consciously in union with God.
We are not even consciously in union with our own spirits.

The difference For Jesus was that he became to be Consciously in union with God at some point in his life, and knew who he was.

I suspect that John 17:20, 21 is indicating to us that this is possible for us as well. But perhaps not inevitably or easily so.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think existence is union with God. Therefor I think we're in union with
divinity.
As others have pointed out, to be aware of this is another matter. To reason it intellectually, that all is one substance, is very different than it being conscious awareness, the center of gravity of your being, the set of eyes you look through. Meister Eckhart said it well, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love."
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The notion of an union with god or with all things is found in most religions I know of in one form or another. The Abrahamic religions, however, tend to describe it as something less than an absolutely full union, since they deny an absolutely full union would be possible. From a certain standpoint, this is their most serious flaw as religions. For as D. T. Suzuki put it, without the possibility of an absolute union, one is left with permanent alienation: Man against god, man against nature, man against man, man against himself. At least, that is, on the deepest levels. Or, so Suzuki thought. I'm not sure whether I entirely agree with Suzuki or not.
All what you say is very true. The traditional church tends to say Jesus is the only one, and you just have to sit in the pew and due your faithful duty hoping after you die you can sit in heaven and look at God all day long (still separate from Him apparently). This creates this impossible bridge to span, which of course is what the Christian theology of an intercessor was intended to close. It takes that Mediator, and removes Him from our experience too! "Only Jesus is the begotten Son of God".

I just read this a few nights ago from Meister Eckhart, since I just brought him up. Contrast this with what the traditional church preaches!

"What the eternal Father teaches is his own Being, Nature, and Godhead - which he is always revealing through his only begotten Son. He teaches that we are to be identical with him.

To deny one's self is to be the only begotten Son of God and one who does so has for himself all the properties of that Son. All God's acts are performed and his teachings conveyed through the Son, to the point that we should be his only begotten Son."

My goodness, imagine the day when Christians see Jesus as their brother, rather than a lofty figure the can never themselves become! Where they themselves will say, "I am the Son of God. He that has seen me has seen the Father". To me, that is what the Christian message is, but isn't recognized, or taught within its 'orthodox' standards.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I believe our spirits come from and are of God.

This does not make us consciously in union with God.
We are not even consciously in union with our own spirits.

The difference For Jesus was that he became to be Consciously in union with God at some point in his life, and knew who he was.

I suspect that John 17:20, 21 is indicating to us that this is possible for us as well. But perhaps not inevitably or easily so.

But even if we are ignorqnt of being one in God, doesn't take away the fact that we are, its just the illusionary mind that separtes us.
 

Contemplative Cat

energy formation
If one considers God the Whole or Absolute, then a child of God is any individual who forms in God.
Realization of this is the first enlightenment(the next involves renunciation of attachments)

When Christ says this, I know exactly what hes saying, and anyone else who experiences true Yoga understands this.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Yes, in a way. Unity in Christianity isn't the same as in the Eastern religions. We don't lose our individuality and are assimilated into the divine. Rather, unity in Christianity is more like a harmony in line with the love and will of God.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
But even if we are ignorqnt of being one in God, doesn't take away the fact that we are, its just the illusionary mind that separtes us.


We could be one with God in many senses.
However if we are unaware that we are, we still can not experience it in a meaning full way, or perhaps benefit from it.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Yes, in a way. Unity in Christianity isn't the same as in the Eastern religions. We don't lose our individuality and are assimilated into the divine. Rather, unity in Christianity is more like a harmony in line with the love and will of God.

Christianity Might believe that we maintain our individuality, but I rather doubt that we do... That would seem to be more like wishful thinking.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, in a way. Unity in Christianity isn't the same as in the Eastern religions. We don't lose our individuality and are assimilated into the divine. Rather, unity in Christianity is more like a harmony in line with the love and will of God.
I don't believe in Eastern religions to say one loses identification with the self, this means you have no sense of individuality at all. You loose exclusive identification with the small self, the ego self, and that identity shifts to that of Atman, the true Self. Christianity says the same thing about dying to one's self in order to be born again, to know your true Nature. It's the entire theme of death and Resurrection, yet some take this to mean ones physical body and miss the vastly more important metaphoric expression of knowing God through emptying yourself, your clinging to this world in hopes to find Peace, and surrendering that small egoic self into God. Die to self, know God, know yourself. Death, and rebirth as the Divine in you. Except this happens, "you shall in nowise enter into the Kingdom of God". How can you if you can't see that alive in you? How can you see or enter if you aren't awakened to see?
 
Last edited:

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

John 17:20, 21

20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

What are your thoughts?

Sure...why not ? That's exactly what the relationship with God should be. Messenger's of God does exactly what God wants and God in return gives them everything they ask for (and they never ask for anything God won't be pleased with)). Essentially, God has a Message , God's Messenger preaches that Message and the rest of the Believer's accepts and practice that Message. Can be applicable to any of God's Messengers and their followers. But the crucial thing to note here is 'you(Father) sent me forth' - which clarifies the Union to be in message and purpose only and NOT authority/lordship.

Peace.
 
Top