• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus was in union with God...can we be also?

Repox

Truth Seeker
How do you define "union"?

No one, and/or, no being is divine other than the one G-D.

I agree, how do you define union? If you mean we, or each believer in Jesus is, by virtue of believing Jesus is the son of God, in union with God, it may be true. Most Christians would agree. However, if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God there would be no union. That's Christian theology.
 

Contemplative Cat

energy formation
If Jesus had one father he would just say "my father", but he refers to God as "my father in heaven"

Anyone who meditates or does any long term silent prayer can figure out what Jesus meant in his statement. This is why Gnostic Christians said only people who have gained Gnosis can properly interpret the Gospels.

Jesus was a man, Christ is what he became after realizing the Spirit, his true father of all beings.
 

frangipani

Member
Premium Member
Well actually Gnostics said only spiritually gifted people can become as Christ. Others are lost to this world Satan's realm.

True, the gift is the eternal spirit, the spark of life from the Ineffable One. With the exception of your sociopathic types all other people have this gift by the nature of inheritance. Many though are so consumed with this world and the carnal life this great gift of spirit never gets to grow, but is stifled by all the worldly things. One must still seek, one must for whatever reason initially begin to wonder if there is more to life than what we see. It is here that one's spiritual journey begins and that great gift of spirit is realised. It is in these people that gnosis is possible through Christ and growth, redemption and salvation become possible.:)
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
Christianity Might believe that we maintain our individuality, but I rather doubt that we do... That would seem to be more like wishful thinking.

Why wishful thinking? Dissolving into Absolute/GOD/Source/Consciousness/Abyss isn't the only way to see things or the oldest or most truest by default. A great many "supernatural" experiences, visions, etc. suggest otherwise as well.

The Absolute is always forever expressing as multiplicity and manifestations.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Absolute is always forever expressing as multiplicity and manifestations.
Oh me and my tiny little mental images of what is God! :) I'm just remarking this statement of yours made me stop to catch myself doing what is natural to do. Even though I may open to brilliant illumination in divine light and all these mental object that I hold defining God are laid waste, we then take that and begin to construct yet another model of God in our minds! It's a process of building up, then tearing down, building up, then tearing down until there is nothing left but "just this" in all things.

Sorry, just processing aloud here. :)
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
What if Jesus was God, then there would be no union, just God. Actually, I believe that is the case. God came into the world as Jesus. I don't even think Jesus had a family. God popped into the world and began his testimony (Rev. 11 about the two witnesses). Because God is a duality, gospel authors and Paul didn't understand, so they invented son of God stories.

If you research it, you will find no historical information for the family of Jesus. It makes sense, why would God need a family? I know this stretches the imagination, but what if it is true? That would mean most of the gospels are incorrect inasmuch as they are stories about the son of God. There are parts however that fit for God as a duality. "If you see me you see my father."
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
What if Jesus was God, then there would be no union, just God. Actually, I believe that is the case. God came into the world as Jesus. I don't even think Jesus had a family. God popped into the world and began his testimony (Rev. 11 about the two witnesses). Because God is a duality, gospel authors and Paul didn't understand, so they invented son of God stories.

If you research it, you will find no historical information for the family of Jesus. It makes sense, why would God need a family? I know this stretches the imagination, but what if it is true? That would mean most of the gospels are incorrect inasmuch as they are stories about the son of God. There are parts however that fit for God as a duality. "If you see me you see my father."

In such a case why would people assume it was only Jesus and only two/dual?

What if not just discipleship, but apprenticeship, was being preached?
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
In such a case why would people assume it was only Jesus and only two/dual?

What if not just discipleship, but apprenticeship, was being preached?

When Jesus (God) spoke both of Gods were in him, so either God would be speaking, and then, to be genuine, they would not be the same, not replicas of each other. In the course of their ministry they would reveal duality by taking different approaches or even attitudes about a subject. They may have even referred to the other God as being different. Their followers may have concluded their were two persons, and then decades later it was written down as father and son. I am hypothesizing inasmuch as there's no accurate account of the ministry of Jesus (God).

I believe they were there to give testimony to past associations and commandments related to relationships between them. It would be as if two teachers had come into the world as promised to clarify commitments and teachings.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
When Jesus (God) spoke both of Gods were in him, so either God would be speaking, and then, to be genuine, they would not be the same, not replicas of each other. In the course of their ministry they would reveal duality by taking different approaches or even attitudes about a subject. They may have even referred to the other God as being different. Their followers may have concluded their were two persons, and then decades later it was written down as father and son. I am hypothesizing inasmuch as there's no accurate account of the ministry of Jesus (God).

I believe they were there to give testimony to past associations and commandments related to relationships between them. It would be as if two teachers had come into the world as promised to clarify commitments and teachings.

I'd be interested in an elucidation of your theology
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
I'd be interested in an elucidation of your theology

My ideas about Jesus (God) as a duality comes from a series of dreams. My idea about Jesus (God) being the two witnesses (Rev. 11) is speculation. My theology doesn't come from textbooks or any religion.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I interpret the whole crucifixion story as supporting our union with God.

Christ is the symbol of the divinity in humanity. The cross is the connection of humanity with God. It is the second tree of the Garden of Eden, the Tree of Eternity. Yggdrasil, the Bodhi tree.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
I interpret the whole crucifixion story as supporting our union with God.

Christ is the symbol of the divinity in humanity. The cross is the connection of humanity with God. It is the second tree of the Garden of Eden, the Tree of Eternity. Yggdrasil, the Bodhi tree.

I agree, Christ is a symbol of divinity, he was the connection with humanity. However, I disagree about "the second tree of the Garden of Eden, the tree of eternity." I had a dream about Jesus. Two Roman soldiers were standing over Jesus on his knees. One soldier was beating Jesus with his fist as the other soldier watched. So, I don't believe Jesus was crucified. He died an ignoble death, one commensurate with humans debase condition. There is no glory associated with humans murdering Jesus. It is what you would expect when a perfectly holy God attempts to communicate with a fallen species in a doomed world.
 
Last edited:

roger1440

I do stuff
Jesus said he and his Father are one. (John 10:30) Can that apply to us as well?

John 17:20, 21

20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

What are your thoughts?
The canonical Gospels are allegory. They were never intended to be taken literality. The synoptic Gospels (Mathew, Mark and Luke) portray Jesus as the nation of Israel. John’s Gospel portrays Jesus as God. There are 12 “I am” sayings in the Gospel of John. This is a direct reference to:


“God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'". (Exodus 3:14)
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
A very from 2 Peter 1: 2-3

3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

I believe 'yes' is the answer to your question.

But it's worth noting the nuances so I'd like to add doing some reading about the Essence-Energies Distinction from Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
It talks about this exact thing and does so deeply but with clarity.
 

r2d2009

Member
Vladimir Antonov
How Is It — to Merge with God?

Translated from Russian by Vladimir Antonov and Hiero Nani
© Vladimir Antonov, 2012

Those who have not improved themselves with methods of Buddhi Yoga (or, in other words, with the methods of developed Hesychasm or Sufism), can hardly understand the mechanism of mergence of a developed human soul — with the Divine Consciousness. So let us explore this subject a little deeper.
When ordinary people think about mergence with someone — they are usually referring to sex. Yes, due to harmonious sexual relations between regular partners, among them are very close emotional connections of love. Who is lucky enough to find such a partner — can trace it in oneself. So there has been a real uniting of souls — between incarnate people.
Emotions — they are the states of consciousness. Accustoming ourselves to the states of love, deepening and strengthening of these states — this is a great opportunity, given to people by God, — to learn great and pure love, which can then be turned to Him.
But for our love to become pure, everyone should — on the background of matrimonial relations — closely search for one’s own ethical imperfections, such as obsession, violence, jealousy, ability to cause any harm to the partner, and other manifestations of egocentrism. One striving to the spiritual perfection should avoid even a potential possibility of the manifestation of such vices.
The break of well-established relations of love may be very painful: it is the disconnecting of once united souls. The described situation can be remembered by many of us from our own lives. And this knowledge can help someone to overcome easier the pain of parting — either now or in future.
States of love, similar to those considered above, can form also for children, friends, animals, and even plants. But let us always remember that God should be the Main Object of our love.
* * *
How do ordinary people feel the state of being in love? They may either simply “go with the flow” of their emotions, or at a slightly higher level — realize and observe them, thinking: “I am in love” or “it hurts me”. Moreover, these pronouns (“I”, “me”) are attached to one’s own body or to the mind; the soul is still not recognized as a subject of these situations. Every such person is still living, being tightly bound with the individual body, thinking and acting from it, feeling oneself as it.
But the methods of development of oneself as the spiritual heart allow receiving gradually greater and greater freedom from the material body, while it remains fully alive and increasingly healthy. The consciousness (soul) of such an adept becomes much larger than the material human body. This difference in size can be in thousands, then millions of times! Such a student now — even if he or she really wants — cannot locate themselves completely in the material bodies! Such a human becomes really ubiquitous across the planet and around it.
Those who have mastered this — also after death of the bodies, of course, continue to feel themselves as huge consciousnesses. They are free to move in space, being powerful, wise, and loving. Their love is the most important quality, since they could not become such, if they had not developed themselves solely as love.
* * *
Emotions of love (as well as any other emotions) may spread out of the material bodies of any person.
If it were otherwise — it would be impossible to unite in love with other embodied souls.
And if the bodies already are not? If now there is only the vast consciousness, not tied to anything related to material objects? Then — it is even easier to merge! This mergence is a mutual penetration and mutual dissolving of consciousnesses. So live Those Who have attained the status of the Holy Spirit. And so Their United “We” is formed.
I also mention that the emotions of love — are uniting. Emotions of hate, censure, hostility, also strongly expressed egocentrism — are disuniting. God wishes to see us in uniting, integrating emotions of love. He invites us all to learn to feel ourselves as members of the united Family with other beings and where the Pater (i.e. the Father) is He. So, by the way, we can become the true patriots — patriots of God.
One last note: when reasonable people and God talk about love — it is necessary to understand that it is not related to lust. Lust (selfish sexual passion) is the opposite of love.
* * *
People generally do not understand who are spirits — and the Holy Spirits.
Spirits are just non-embodied at present ordinary people and other beings. They differ not only in species’ belonging in their last incarnations, but also in their habitual state of consciousnesses during lives in the bodies. Those, who accustomed themselves to coarse emotions, take a place in hell. Those, who attained successes in developing themselves as real love, are paradise souls.
All they are not separated by any of the “walls” of our material bodies. They can appear for us, for example, in the form of ghosts, becoming more or less visible for incarnate people. They are all absolutely subjugated to God. Therefore it is necessary to understand that even the entering of infernal spirits (demons) into human bodies — it is also a necessary measure for making open to reason for some of those embodiments who behave wrongly, from the viewpoint of God.
And what do people know about the Holy Spirit? Bird-pigeon? Similarity to the part of plant shamrock? And even saying that the Holy Spirit is Part of the Trinity — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit — even though it is the true, but this does not explain anything and does not approach the understanding of the essence.
In reality, the Holy Spirit (or, in Sanskrit, Brahman) — it is the concept of an aggregate, collecting all Those now non-embodied Humans of both sexes Who have reached the Divine Perfection and now live in the Abode of the Primordial Consciousness, however easily come out from it for the sake of helping embodied beings.
And we should also strive to achieve the state of the Holy Spirit, to become Ones of Them.
They were primarily the same, as we, incarnate people. But They — before us had time to develop Themselves up to the Divinity.
And now They — with great joy — are willing to help embodied seekers of God, who genuinely seek to learn from Them.
But They are ready to teach only spiritual perfecting. If someone tries to use contact with Them for profit, then They will either remain silent, or joke misleadingly: in order for such persons to realize their error and correct it.
* * *
 
Top