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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by godnotgod, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. nash8

    nash8 Da man, when I walk thru!

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    I would lie if the Nazis still existed as any prominent source of power in the world today. ;)

    All I'm sayin is, that the time is now. Sounds like I need to make a trip to the Hemis monastery and confirm all this for myself. Now all I have to do is get rich so I can afford to spend a year in Tibet so the monks will trust me. :D



    Actually yes I do. I actually referenced this in my other post, but finding the sources is quite difficult, and I'm lazy. Specifically I would like to see the picture that one lady took of the Monk revealing the scrolls to her in like 1970 or something?

    I agree with your assertation of reason. However, I also believe the time has come where the sheep have become the wolves and vice versa, and it's time for the sheep-wolves to expose the hiding spot of the wolf-sheep. ;)

    Indeed.

    Where did Jesus teach about this fire for the damned? John, the obviously gnostic influenced text, that was the last of the composed Gospels, and was left in the Canon for some uknown reason?

    References sir. And along these lines, there is an article by Price I believe, who is known Biblical scholar, who asserts that the monks promoted this "false" story to gain "tourism" for the monastery and/or to play a trick on "curious" people, while simultaneously stating in the same paper that the foremost reason that Notovitch's story was likely a fake was due to the "credibility" of the monks assertation that the story was a fraud. You can't you the same reason to discredit one theory, while simultaneously using the same reason to credit your own theory in my opinion.
     
  2. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    I don't think you're reading that correctly, or you're reading into it something that's not there. When Jesus to beware of hellfire, he says to be afraid of hell itself. I think you're making an assertion that simply doesn't fit. When Jesus says its better to CHOP OFF YOUR HAND than use it to enter the fire, I highly doubt he's talking about passions overwhelming you as the punishment. And going by Revelation, it's quite clear the author of the lines that refer to the "Lake of Fire" were being quite literal, no matter how symbolic the book may be considered.

    Now this is a controversial topic, but you must take into account all the things Jesus says before adopting a very metaphorical new-agey aspect on it. I understand this is subject to everyone's interpretation and all, but I'd place my bets, ALL my bets that Jesus was in fact talking about a very literal hellfire to be wary of going to if you unrepentantly sin. Hands down, without question. I'd bet my LIFE on that. Would you?
     
    #42 Shermana, Oct 11, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
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  3. nash8

    nash8 Da man, when I walk thru!

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    Can you cite some sources for the churches campaing to condemn evolution, wicca, zen, yoga, new age gnosticism, and etc. And don't give me sources from the Landover Baptist Church please. The only church institution that has enough power to affect events in a Tibettan monastery is the Catholic church, and I've like a lot of what I've seen from them lately. That new Pope seems like a decent guy. He's publicly supported A TON of ideas that have been contrary to ideas traditionally promoted by the Catholic Church.
     
  4. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    See the verses above. Anyone says Jesus was making some abstract metaphorical connotation I will simply not allow to go uncontested. The language is clear that Jesus was speaking of a literal destination afterwards.

    You may also like the very Gnostic (And very Jewish) book of Revelation which is clear about a Lake of Fire for the damned as well, and it's actually not quite as "Symbolic" as people try to act, as if NOTHING mentioned was literal or close to literal.

    And you may like the Book of Enoch which Jude quotes as "prophetic" which also talks about a "Valley of fire" for the damned.
     
  5. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    Actually, unbeknownst to many, the clever manipulators of Truth are busily transforming Nazareth into Las Vegas. Why, thar's gold in them thar hills....uh...er.....Soon we'll have Jesus dressed as Elvis doing daily gigs at 3pm, after which he'll be crucified as a grand spectacle for public display....just one thin dime, folks...step right up...
     
  6. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Have you even looked at the link for Buddha's fire sermon? You might want to look before you leap to judgement. I looked at your reference to the War Scroll, and quoted it, addressing your argument instead of personally attacking you. (You might also want to consider the part I highlighted in red at Matt 5:22 above.) Hindsight is 20/20.
     
  7. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    I agree you didn't personally attack me, and I didn't attack you either. I will read the thing on Buddha but that doesn't change whatsoever what the text says. I fail to see how the part you highlighted remotely changes what Jesus meant about hellfire being a literal place. Feel free to explain in detail, especially in relevance to things that Jesus says like hell being the place where body and soul can be destroyed in the afterlife.

    It seems everyone wants to put some kind of new agey spin on the concept of hellfire as if Jesus couldn't have possibly just been talking plain and literally. I can see why that is.

    Again, I am willing to bet my life that Jesus was referring to a literal, real hell. May I die painfully in the near future if he wasn't. That's how confident I am in this. I WILL jump to judgment on this. This is a subject I take very seriously and don't tolerate nonsense on.
     
  8. nash8

    nash8 Da man, when I walk thru!

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    Lol, I love how you highlight anger, but leave out the part about being angry with your brother. Not being angry with your fellow man sounds very Buddhist to me. And referencing Revelation in anything, you are "walking the line" so to speak. Revelation was extremely gnosticly influenced in my opinion, it really had no business being in the Canon considering the criteria used for other books included, in the first line of the book it says, "I ate a scroll and prophecised", and it was written by a man on an Island that was known to have a surplus of enthogenic, psychadelic mushrooms.

    Amanita muscaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Interesting theory on the foundations of Christianity as well. That's a Christian philosphy I could get down with. :D
     
  9. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    Are you kidding? The world is a sensationalist carnival gone wrong at the moment. Besides, as I mentioned, the Buddhists have no agenda to reveal anything. From their point of view, the scrolls are about St. Issa their friend and teacher, not Jesus the godman savior of the world in the flesh who floated away into the heavens.
     
  10. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    I'm really not sure how this remotely serves as a cogent reply against what I said.
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You need to show the above one more time, please.

    I have read that the Jewish working class was motivated by forces other than just 'God's Law'. It was also strongly motivated by 'superstition'.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the one motivation that drove poor Jewish peasants to the Temple was the fear that if they did not go, and sacrifice, then their crops would fail, their health would decline, they would have unfortunate happenings.

    G-Mark gives me an impression that Yeshua (and John-t-B!) thought that the whole priesthood was just a complete nest of snakes, far flung from the true Law, gathering together at the three big feasts to take part in one massive act of plunder.

    So..... seeing this (as I do at this time), I would not be surprised if Yeshua had payed less attention than average to these events. For instance, I don't think that he went to the Temple (on that Passover) so much to make sacriifice as to demonstrate and appeal to the populace.

    So..... please...... I would appreciate it if you could show me where I've got this wrong.
     
  12. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Oldbadger, I'm not quite sure the general gist of your point or what exactly you're asking to me show or prove, or how I can disprove it exactly whatever it is you're pointing out.

    But as for

    Jesus was basically calling the Jewish leadership out for having cruel hearts, for not caring about the poor, for being hypocrites, for not having their whole heart and soul in their belief, for inventing their own traditions, and such. It has nothing to do about the law altogether.

    Now as for proving that Jesus went to the Temple only to appeal to the populace, that's kind of asking me to disprove a negative, but he wouldn't have thrown the moneychangers out so violently if he didn't consider it valuable. Also, if Jesus didn't obey the Festivals, he would have been breaking the same law he said would never god void, not "one iota", that "heaven and earth" would collapse before such happened.

    Have you read the gospels fully?
     
  13. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    He was following the tradition of removing Chametz (leaven) from "his father's house" before Passover when he removed the moneychangers from the temple before Passover.

    The Removal of Chametz
     
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  14. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Well that's an interesting way of viewing the "Leavening of the Pharisees". Did you come up with that one?
     
  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    My point was that the Temple 'pilgrimage' was more motivated by superstition (of what bad things could happen if they did not go), than :Law...

    Cool..... I was just showing that his last Passover visit coud have been more motivatyed by a need to appeal to large crowds than to make scarifice. ?

    Look..... I can trek off and search the Leviticus and Deut for the written law, or some kind person could just direct me to the words..... but of course, the Temple did not exist when the Great Laws were passed down, surely?

    No.
    I have studied only Mark, this last 8 months. Just commencing a study of John.
     
  16. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Actually, one of the Jewish members here brought it to my attention.
     
  17. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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  18. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    [​IMG]


    Life of St Issa Scroll

    The Lost Years of Jesus: On the Discoveries of Notovitch, Abhedananda ... - Elizabeth Clare Prophet - Google Books

    ha ha ha...'known biblical scholar'?, LOL!....who is it that has the agenda here? Smacks of Tertullian and Martyr going hysterical over Mithras.
     
    #58 godnotgod, Oct 11, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  19. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    I find it interesting that Abhenenanda's version omitted:

    "14 Issa denied the Trimurti and the incarnation of Para-Brahma in Vishnu, Siva*, and other gods, for said he:"
     
  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Fair enough......


    Ok..... I know that I should study Jewish background, but it's taking me some time to really pay close attention to single gospels, just now.


    Thanks for the above...... and so I shall.... turn to Matthew for the time being.
     
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