Jesus said my god my god why have you forsaken me?

[ProfLogic]

Man is spiritual FIRST (made in God's image) and physical second.

I beg to differ, in genesis it was physical.. garden for mans enjoyment, I don't believe it ever said look into your physical being. It even gave man a partner since it saw it was lonely, physically a woman.

As for your assessment of God: it merely sounds like willful ignorance. You obviously don't understand him and have seemed to have foisted your character traits on that which you admit you do not understand. No wonder you are ****** at him.

Have you had a real conversation with your god to be able to judge others as you are showing now? If you have, challenge it and you will see. I do understand it, and it just needs humanity to learn, truly its afraid thus wants humanity to bicker on a small thing like religion because the bigger thing is a person's existence.

My belief system has no bearing on reality. Either it coincides with it or it does not. I'm betting that it does. Either way, my beliefs can not alter my existence on this mortal plain.

Then you are admitting that you do not need the guidance of the bible.

 

[doppelganger]

It sounds like the author of those words, writing decades later and an eyewitness to nothing, was impregnating his tale with a reference to the 22nd Psalm as implied prooftext.

Well, that appears to be true of the structure of the entire passion story, which follows Psalm 22 with a few interpolations from elsewhere (such as the vinegar and gall of Isa. 69:21).

Psalm 22:

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?

Mark 15:

at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Psalm 22:

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

Mark 15:
13"Crucify him!" they shouted. 14"Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"
15Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

16The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers. 17They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18And they began to call out to him, "Hail, king of the Jews!" 19Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him. 20And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.

* * *

29Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, "So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30come down from the cross and save yourself!"
31In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. "He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! 32Let this Christ,[b] this King of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe." Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Psalm 22:

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.

Mark 15:

24And they crucified him.[See also John 20 that this is understood as piercing his hands and feet]

Psalm 22:

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

Mark 15:
Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get.

 

[ProfLogic]

Go back and READ what I posted.

There's nothing puzzling about why Christ would refer to God as "God". Christ wasn't expecting anything in return...Christ was as fully HUMAN as he was DIVINE.

The forsaken word appears to mean jesus wanted something that he did not get.

In the garden, He said "they will be done" not ONLY because He was submitting to the will of the Father in terms of what was about to take place within His life but to SHOW US how we are to submit to the will of God, regardless of circumstances.

His show of emotion was evident that he did not agreed with the plan fully cause of his weeping. I could imagine that it had a great control of his mind thus jesus thought that by dying he would save humanity in the end, well natural disasters occured with ended innocent lives, how can that be redemption? On top of this the self proclaimed god said that the earth is the dominion of satan, satan rules and is amongst men....what redemption does mankind need if it introduced satan to man by banishing satan on earth with man.

Christ was our Redeemer...He was also the ultimate EXAMPLE of how one should live for God.

Are you referring to the translated scriptures that had been censored by a few men and later been translated by yet a fewer more men? If Christ was a redeemer for mankind, it would have been nice if during that time people in other regions knew about the god they claimed as jesus. I am pretty sure no one in Asia or the americas knew of this act of redemption until the wicked colonization exploration was launched by spain.

 

[dawny0826]

The forsaken word appears to mean jesus wanted something that he did not get.

Or perhaps...that's just what you're taking from it.

His show of emotion was evident that he did not agreed with the plan fully cause of his weeping.

No, His emotion reiterated the fact that He was indeed as much human as He was divine.

I could imagine that it had a great control of his mind thus jesus thought that by dying he would save humanity in the end

If you're thinking of "saving" humanity in a physical sense...you've got it all wrong. Christ wasn't sent to save our bodies.

, well natural disasters occured with ended innocent lives, how can that be redemption?

Even Christians weren't promised that they are exempt from disaster, natural or otherwise. We were never promised that our physical lives would be saved or prolonged.

We were promised that our souls would be saved. We were promised that God would never leave us.

Redemption involves the soul. Christ died so that we could be reconciled with God. It's by Christ's blood that we can be cleansed. THAT IS REDEMPTION.

what redemption does mankind need if it introduced satan to man by banishing satan on earth with man.

Without Christ...there is no life, period.

And I'm not talking about PHYSICAL life here...on this earth. I'm talking about what occurs beyond this life. This is the prep for eternity.

We need redemption from the ugly within ourselves. The whole concept of Satan being responsible for anything doesn't really fly because every individual has to make choices in life. Satan is the road block. He's going to place obstacles before us...he's going to lie to us and make us feel worthless and discourage us. He'll distract us from the path that we need to take to get closer to understanding God and closer to understanding God's purpose for our lives.

But in the end...we're held accountable for our actions. Satan isn't responsible.

So, there's much that we need redemption from. Without Christ's redemption...we haven't the authority to demand Satan and the muck that goes along with him to go where it all belongs...BEHIND the believer.

Are you referring to the translated scriptures that had been censored by a few men and later been translated by yet a fewer more men?

Look, many Christians of many different religious denominations read their Bibles, whether it be the King James Version, the NLT, the NIV, the ACV...whatever...and AREN'T complaining about the message or the translation.

Understanding the Word of God is more than reading and comprehending scripture. There's a spiritual process involved. I read several different versions of the Bible, including a Catholic Bible and I am a Protestant Christian and the message is the same...salvation is found in Christ Jesus.

If Christ was a redeemer for mankind, it would have been nice if during that time people in other regions knew about the god they claimed as jesus. I am pretty sure no one in Asia or the americas knew of this act of redemption until the wicked colonization exploration was launched by spain.

Every Christian is charged with the same responsibility which is to carry out the Great Commission...to share the good news.

People won't know of the gospel until they're told.

 

[ProfLogic]

Or perhaps...that's just what you're taking from it.

Since you refered to the human side of jesus, it seems that if a human uses forsaken, it means you left them hanging to take a fall.

No, His emotion reiterated the fact that He was indeed as much human as He was divine.

he was weeping while he said thy will be done... it appears that he was not excited of the self procalimed god's decision.... because in reality, jesus deep down knew he was only a man and perhaps during that same conversation made a deal with the self procalimed god thus utter the words "why have you forsaken me". jesus finally realized that death is final for him...

If you're thinking of "saving" humanity in a physical sense...you've got it all wrong. Christ wasn't sent to save our bodies.

I know christians refer to it as the sins of mankind

Even Christians weren't promised that they are exempt from disaster, natural or otherwise. We were never promised that our physical lives would be saved or prolonged.

If the sins of man were washed at that time, people continue to suffer and if the self priocalimed god had dominion over nature which it claimed have created, then wouldn't you think the natural disasters would have stop occuring for generations?

We were promised that our souls would be saved. We were promised that God would never leave us.

The self proclaimed god already noted that it was going to leave you on the final judgement. In some religion they said 1/3 would only be saved.... Book of revelations even pointed out the rapture of which everyone is going to feel a loss... You do not call this abandonment?

Redemption involves the soul. Christ died so that we could be reconciled with God. It's by Christ's blood that we can be cleansed. THAT IS REDEMPTION.

Such a violent representation do not signal redemption, it signals the right commit suicicde in the name of god. If it wanted to redeem mankind all it had to do is say so, that is if it truly can communicate with mankind at will.

Without Christ...there is no life, period.

I beg to differ.. There are plenty of good natured people (as defined by civilized society) that are if not better than true believers of the bible. There is life without the bible and christ... people throught the ages never had christ to believe in..

And I'm not talking about PHYSICAL life here...on this earth. I'm talking about what occurs beyond this life. This is the prep for eternity.

No one really knows whats in store for you when you die.

We need redemption from the ugly within ourselves. The whole concept of Satan being responsible for anything doesn't really fly because every individual has to make choices in life. Satan is the road block. He's going to place obstacles before us...he's going to lie to us and make us feel worthless and discourage us. He'll distract us from the path that we need to take to get closer to understanding God and closer to understanding God's purpose for our lives.

Satan and the self procalimed .. there is no difference.

But in the end...we're held accountable for our actions. Satan isn't responsible.

It would have helped if the self proclaimed god never introduced satan to mankind.

Look, many Christians of many different religious denominations read their Bibles, whether it be the King James Version, the NLT, the NIV, the ACV...whatever...and AREN'T complaining about the message or the translation.

That is the confusing part about christians, they believe in different things. Its the same collection of books isn't it?

Understanding the Word of God is more than reading and comprehending scripture. There's a spiritual process involved. I read several different versions of the Bible, including a Catholic Bible and I am a Protestant Christian and the message is the same...salvation is found in Christ Jesus.

I always say salvation is through yourself, you control your existence and no one else.

Every Christian is charged with the same responsibility which is to carry out the Great Commission...to share the good news.

Share is great, forcing is not so great...

People won't know of the gospel until they're told.

Thats the problem, people just takes other peoples words and eventually believes in soemthing that they would have never believed in if they were left alone. The term "brain washing" comes to play here.

 

[Katzpur]

If Christ was a redeemer for mankind, it would have been nice if during that time people in other regions knew about the god they claimed as jesus.

Since they didn't, (and I agree it would have been "nice"), God has that little glitch covered. Everyone who has ever lived, and not known about the Gospel of Jesus Christ during his lifetime, will be given the opportunity to do so during the time between his death and resurrection. (I'm not trying to push an agenda here, by the way; I'm just stating the LDS perspective on this issue.)

I am pretty sure no one in Asia or the americas knew of this act of redemption until the wicked colonization exploration was launched by spain.

Actually, that's what the Book of Mormon is about -- an ancient civilization in the Americas that did know about the Atonement. Again, you won't believe this. I'm not asking you do. Just making an observation based on my own person beliefs.

 

[dawny0826]

Since you refered to the human side of jesus, it seems that if a human uses forsaken, it means you left them hanging to take a fall.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Of course, I completely disagree with you.

he was weeping while he said thy will be done... it appears that he was not excited of the self procalimed god's decision

He was weeping because He acknowledged the magnitude of man's sin. I have a hunch, you'd be crying too. How is this negative? How does this prove anything other than the fact that Jesus was also fully human?

.... because in reality, jesus deep down knew he was only a man and perhaps during that same conversation made a deal with the self procalimed god thus utter the words "why have you forsaken me". jesus finally realized that death is final for him...

I don't think so. Christ's death resulted in resurrection. AND gave life to all who receive it.

I know christians refer to it as the sins of mankind

Can you explain what your point is?

If the sins of man were washed at that time, people continue to suffer and if the self priocalimed god had dominion over nature which it claimed have created, then wouldn't you think the natural disasters would have stop occuring for generations?

As I've already stated, we were never promised that we wouldn't suffer. In fact, we're told in the Word that we WOULD suffer and should be ready to suffer, as Christ did.

As far as natural disasters are concerned...I'm not a Christian who believes that natural disasters are a direct result of sin. This world, according to scriptures is dying. NATURAL disasters happen. It's a part of the process. And they're going to worsen as time goes on.

We weren't promised that we are exempt from the uglies of life. We were promised that our souls wouldn't perish if we chose Christ over death. I believe very much that this is a decision that you have to make. Christ was the sacrifice for your sins and by Grace...He offers you salvation but one has to reach out and grasp that...believe in Him, love Him and pick up their own cross and walk with Him.

Crap is going to happen in this world. And God isn't going to bail us out unless He chooses to do so and it's part of His plan for our lives. With Christ, we're told that all things are possible but every Christian knows that above all...we should desire that His will be done in our lives, not our own.

What God's promised us is that He will not abandon us during our struggles and will never give us more than we can handle.

The self proclaimed god already noted that it was going to leave you on the final judgement.

That's untrue. And if you beg to differ...I'd like to see scripture to support this claim.

In some religion they said 1/3 would only be saved.... Book of revelations even pointed out the rapture of which everyone is going to feel a loss... You do not call this abandonment?

Expound. What do you mean by "everyone is going to feel a loss"?

If anyone is abandoned, they've CHOSEN to be abandoned. There's only two ways to live...for Christ or not. There is no middle ground.

Such a violent representation do not signal redemption, it signals the right commit suicicde in the name of god. If it wanted to redeem mankind all it had to do is say so, that is if it truly can communicate with mankind at will.

And because of your lack of belief (which you're entitled to...I mean you no disrespect)...you can't possibly understand the beauty of Christ's sacrifice. You choose not to.

You've already made your mind up. Christ died for you because He loves you and wants for you to have life.

You aren't obligated to believe that or care.

Your choice. I fail to understand why you try so desparately to discount the beliefs of others. But you know...to each his/her own, I guess.

I beg to differ.. There are plenty of good natured people (as defined by civilized society) that are if not better than true believers of the bible. There is life without the bible and christ... people throught the ages never had christ to believe in..

The life I speak of isn't life on this earth...the life I speak of is life after we've moved on from this earth.

No one really knows whats in store for you when you die.

I am more confident sir of what is in store for me after I die than what is in store for me while I'm living here in this world. Speak for yourself, please.

Satan and the self procalimed .. there is no difference.

No.

It would have helped if the self proclaimed god never introduced satan to mankind.

MANKIND introduced Satan to mankind by mankind's disobedience. Man had the authority to tell Satan to take a hike in the garden of Eden and disobeyed. Place blame where blame is due.

Adam and Eve could have walked away but CHOSE not to.

That is the confusing part about christians, they believe in different things. Its the same collection of books isn't it?

For the most part. I personally, don't subscribe much to religion. My focus is on my faith and personal walk with Christ.

Despite the differences between different Christian groups...we are all part of ONE singular body...the body of Christ. Christ is our common ground. And Christ is no doubt, the most important focus of our faith. When you strip away all the traditions...Christians have salvation because of Christ...period.

I always say salvation is through yourself, you control your existence and no one else.

To a degree, I agree with you. But unlike you, I acknowledge that my life doesn't belong to me...it ultimately belongs to my Creator. I have free will and have the ability to make choices. And with each decision...there's a right way and a wrong way to handle things. I may control my destiny in that regard. But my life belongs to my Father.

Share is great, forcing is not so great...

It is absolutely impossible for anyone to be forced into Christianity.

Accepting Christ is a process of rebirth. It's impossible to receive Christ if you don't want Him.

So, don't sweat it...Christianity isn't contagious.

Thats the problem, people just takes other peoples words and eventually believes in soemthing that they would have never believed in if they were left alone. The term "brain washing" comes to play here.

Brain washing? Whatever.

I rebelled for years against the church, against God. But even through my rebellion and my mother's insistence that I go to church and find God...it didn't matter what she said or what anyone said...I found Christ on my own...I sought HIM.

The preaching and insistence of others didn't ultimately effect my decision. A desire within ME for Christ brought me to Him.

I don't buy into the whole brain washing spiel, sorry.

We have choice and free will.

You obviously have issues with God. That's fine. God isn't forcing you to believe in Him. Believers on this forum can talk in circles day in and day out and there's nothing that anyone can say or do that will change your thoughts and feelings unless you change your thoughts and feelings and opened your heart and mind to it.

 

[ProfLogic]

He was weeping because He acknowledged the magnitude of man's sin. I have a hunch, you'd be crying too. How is this negative? How does this prove anything other than the fact that Jesus was also fully human?

Since you agree that jesus was fully human, Isn't it possible that he was deceived by an awareness that he was a god? The described events of that night when jesus was talking to it, he was not perfectly happy with what was about to happen to him. He wasn't crying for humanities sins, if he was he would have been crying since the day he was born. I still say that he made a deal with it and thus said he was forsaken. It might have been that he asked it not to let him feel pain or even a swift death, but he did not get both. If he knew he was saving humanity why would he cry, he should be rejoicing if it was a true self sacrifice.

What is wrong about the whole thing is that it tricks humanity for its own agenda which is so that humanity keeps believing that it is a god.

Can you explain what your point is?

The sins of men are mostly physical.

As I've already stated, we were never promised that we wouldn't suffer. In fact, we're told in the Word that we WOULD suffer and should be ready to suffer, as Christ did.

Thats my point, its your own destiny/existence, why would you suffer if you in your own power can stop that from happening. Some believers suffer because they were taught to.

Crap is going to happen in this world. And God isn't going to bail us out unless He chooses to do so and it's part of His plan for our lives. With Christ, we're told that all things are possible but every Christian knows that above all...we should desire that His will be done in our lives, not our own.

Thats what it wants you to believe, in the end you will never find the beauty that is called nature. The sun works with its destructive powers still is used by the plants to be nourished... every living creature then thrives because of this. Little do you know that you are already in the paradaise your god is promissing you, it is only a few factors that makes it seems not the best place to exist in. One is peoples difference because of religion. Watch nature by yourself and you will know what I mean.

What God's promised us is that He will not abandon us during our struggles and will never give us more than we can handle.

Remember this is the same bible god that reward people who killed fellow human beings... Story of the kings that was in its favor...David... Chronicles)

That's untrue. And if you beg to differ...I'd like to see scripture to support this claim.

Revelations...... If you do not chose it, it will abandon you plus Raptures, it already said that everyone will feel a loss....sounds like agony....

And because of your lack of belief (which you're entitled to...I mean you no disrespect)...you can't possibly understand the beauty of Christ's sacrifice. You choose not to.

Its not lack of belief, its an experience with your self proclaimed god that convinced me finally that this is not a god. I mentioned to you before, I hope you experience it and ask you to challenge it and you will know what I mean, the bible would be so clear to you and who the jesus they are talking about in the bible. There are others who experience it and are afraid to share their experiences...

I am more confident sir of what is in store for me after I die than what is in store for me while I'm living here in this world. Speak for yourself, please.

Share your perception then.

MANKIND introduced Satan to mankind by mankind's disobedience. Man had the authority to tell Satan to take a hike in the garden of Eden and disobeyed. Place blame where blame is due.

Since the bible is a book of riddles, remmeber the battle in heaven, when the archangels battled and thus creating satan which was banished on earth with mankind? How can that be man's doing, its actually its creation.. an angel who decided to think for itself. Have you noticed that when a being thinks differently that it is automatically categorized as evil by it... adam fell into this category also...

To a degree, I agree with you. But unlike you, I acknowledge that my life doesn't belong to me...it ultimately belongs to my Creator. I have free will and have the ability to make choices. And with each decision...there's a right way and a wrong way to handle things. I may control my destiny in that regard. But my life belongs to my Father.

I hope you do not feel that way, and if this awareness comes upon to you and that is how you feel, think twice. This is exactly one of another person's belief who is no longer on this earth, yes that person experienced this awareness that says he is the god, the self procalimed god.

It is absolutely impossible for anyone to be forced into Christianity.

Mankind runs christianity, thus anything is possible.

So, don't sweat it...Christianity isn't contagious.

Unfortunately it is since most people would not let their children decide for themselves.

I rebelled for years against the church, against God. But even through my rebellion and my mother's insistence that I go to church and find God...it didn't matter what she said or what anyone said...I found Christ on my own...I sought HIM.
The preaching and insistence of others didn't ultimately effect my decision. A desire within ME for Christ brought me to Him.We have choice and free will.

As you finally see, it is not god that makes you, it is yourself. In your post here, I can see that you are a good natured person with or without your belief in the bible because that is your true nature. A god can never force you to do what you really are not .. unless you let it.

You obviously have issues with God. That's fine. God isn't forcing you to believe in Him. Believers on this forum can talk in circles day in and day out and there's nothing that anyone can say or do that will change your thoughts and feelings unless you change your thoughts and feelings and opened your heart and mind to it.

I have no issues with it, I actually challenge it everyday and night but it knows that its been beaten so here I am living the life, the existence I chose for myself and am I not trying to convert anyone, I just wanted to collect people who experience this self procalimed god so that the world can gather more information and unite and finally get this obstacle in uniting mankind which is religion. One day, it might save a life, the life of your friend, your family, a stranger, etc. Religion's aspect which makes people believe that their religion is the correct religion and others are evil, thus making mankind destroy each others existence. People can adore whatever they like.. its their choice and no one elses.....

 

[dawny0826]

The described events of that night when jesus was talking to it, he was not perfectly happy with what was about to happen to him.

And so what? Although, I don't agree with this, what IF He was crying because He wasn't happy about dying? That doesn't change what happened at the cross and just as importantly what happened three days later.

The point is, Christ OBEYED God. As we all do, He had a choice to make and He chose God over His flesh.

He wasn't crying for humanities sins

Quote scripture which makes you believe this. It would interest me to follow where you're coming from with this.

if he was he would have been crying since the day he was born.

Not unless He became FULLY AWARE of His purpose IN THE GARDEN.

I still say that he made a deal with it and thus said he was forsaken. It might have been that he asked it not to let him feel pain or even a swift death, but he did not get both. If he knew he was saving humanity why would he cry, he should be rejoicing if it was a true self sacrifice.

If you have the time, can you provide scripture which makes you believe that Christ didn't sacrifice Himself for us? It would assist me in understanding where you're coming from...if you'd cite some scripture for me. If your thoughts on this matter do not stem from your interpretation of the gospels, would you mind explaining how you came to this conclusion.

What is wrong about the whole thing is that it tricks humanity for its own agenda which is so that humanity keeps believing that it is a god.

God isn't the one with an agenda. He's made it pretty clear what the deal is. If you WANT HIM, He's made a way for you to find Him. If you don't want God in your life...He's not going to enter...end of story.

The sins of men are mostly physical.

The spirit endures eternal consequences.

Thats my point, its your own destiny/existence, why would you suffer if you in your own power can stop that from happening. Some believers suffer because they were taught to.

As a Christian, I live my life, doing the best I can on a daily basis, striving to follow Christ's example. I've been taught to stand strong in in the Lord and to live the fullest life that I can.

A note on nature...

With all due respect, I adore nature but I know that nature is temporary. My faith rests in something that is eternal. And I'm sorry but I find beauty in placing trust in the one person, My God who has always been, is now and will be tomorrow. Seasons change. The earth cycles. My God remains the same. Nature reminds me of how awesome God is.

Remember this is the same bible god that reward people who killed fellow human beings... Story of the kings that was in its favor...David... Chronicles)

And from the beginning of time, God's made it clear that there is glory in obeying and following Him and disobedience leads to destruction and negative consequence. You make it sound as if we're so innocent.

Revelations...... If you do not chose it, it will abandon you plus Raptures, it already said that everyone will feel a loss....sounds like agony....

I can't recall reading this.

Its not lack of belief, its an experience with your self proclaimed god that convinced me finally that this is not a god.

Okay, well, I guess that clears a couple of things up. And with all due respect to you, you're entitled to your beliefs. And my sincere hope is that you find happiness in whatever path(s) you choose in your life.

I mentioned to you before, I hope you experience it and ask you to challenge it and you will know what I mean, the bible would be so clear to you and who the jesus they are talking about in the bible. There are others who experience it and are afraid to share their experiences...

I didn't realize how lost I was until I found Him.

Share your perception then.

What specifically are you asking for?

I rebelled against God for years...questioning Him, doubting Him and doing all I could to keep out of church...to keep out of the Word. I considered Wicca because it made sense to me but something stopped me...I couldn't commit to it because something was missing.

I had a spriritual meltdown, to be honest. And I finally cleared my mind and heart and walked into church one Sunday. I sought answers, I sought peace and I sought God.

And it happened. Our Pastor preached on salvation that day, actually...the basic message of salvation...and I accepted prayer and I truly repented for my sins because I truly felt plagued by my own ugliness and just as the scriptures said...when I asked Christ to cleanse me...He did...I instantly felt this release and it wasn't just this mental release...it was a spiritual and physical release, as if a thousand bricks had been lifted off of my body and when hands were laid on my forehead...I felt the Holy Spirit enter my body.

And I haven't been the same since and although this may sound ridiculous to you, the rebirth that is discussed over and over again in scriptures occured in my life. I walked out of the church a completely different person.

My perception of God...He is LOVE...there's no doubt in my mind that I belong to Him. He's the air I breathe. I don't expect anyone else to understand or even to believe me. But He just is...

And all of the things that perplexed me and angered me about the Word...started to come into focus and make sense to me once I had received the Holy Spirit. The Trinity, which used to bug the living daylights out of me...made complete sense to me not only on a mental level but the way it effects my spirit...it just clicked...

I doubt this answered your question but you know...

Since the bible is a book of riddles, remmeber the battle in heaven, when the archangels battled and thus creating satan

Satan wasn't created by battle. Satan was created by God as an angel like the rest...He was phenomenally beautiful. And from I understand, angels, like humans...have free will. And those that turned against God FELL. Not much different than us when you think about it.

which was banished on earth with mankind?

Satan banished himself by his own dirty actions.

How can that be man's doing, its actually its creation

Adam and Eve were created perfect human beings. They lived in a paradise with God. They had everything they needed and were forbidden to do ONE thing...which was to eat from that forbidden tree. With the persuasion of dorkfish, Satan...Eve took a bite of the forbidden fruit...opening her eyes to all the crud that we were better off without.

Satan was a serpent BENEATH THEIR FEET. Eve had the authority in the Garden to stomp on Satan and CHOSE instead to eat the fruit. Once Satan's evil was leashed...there you go...you've got a corrupted world.

God created Satan as God created us. Satan had choices to make. He choice to disobey and turn away from God. Adam and Eve had choices to make and made the wrong choices. And because of their WRONG choices...Satan's had a hay day on earth since.

.. an angel who decided to think for itself

An angel who ALWAYS had the ability to think for himself. Free will.

. Have you noticed that when a being thinks differently that it is automatically categorized as evil by it... adam fell into this category also...

Nope. There are two types of thinking as there are two types of decisions to make...the right way and the wrong way.

I hope you do not feel that way, and if this awareness comes upon to you and that is how you feel, think twice. This is exactly one of another person's belief who is no longer on this earth, yes that person experienced this awareness that says he is the god, the self procalimed god.

I'm quite content with my experiences, thank you. I'm at peace and I wish the same for you with all of your endeavours. If you're displeased with the Christian path...I wish you absolute happiness on whatever path you take.

Mankind runs christianity, thus anything is possible.

Personally, I'm in no way, shape or form capable of creating or inventing Christ Jesus. He's so far beyond anything I'm capable of. So, I exclude myself form your version of mankind here.

In your post here, I can see that you are a good natured person with or without your belief in the bible because that is your true nature. A god can never force you to do what you really are not .. unless you let it.

Before becoming a Christian, I didn't understand Love at all. I have love in my heart. If I appear to be a good natured person, let me tell you, I can be a downright terrible person at times. The good in me is the love in my heart. I really do love people and care about people but I didn't always feel that way.

People can adore whatever they like.. its their choice and no one elses.....

I agree with you. I have a habit of repeating myself over and over and I've already typed a novel, so unless you have any specific questions, I probably will not contribute anything further, unless of course, you cite some scripture.

Truthfully, peace to you and yours. I wish you nothing but blessings and happiness. If you're happy in life...that rocks and I'm happy for you.

If you've taken anything from my novel...I hope you have a better understanding of where I'm coming from. I truly, truly love my God. I really do. When I think of what His face must have looked like while He was hanging on that cross for me...stupid little me...because He loves me...I'm overcome by gratitude and love.

It's really all about the love...my testimony is that God really is Love. And when we love others...everything else falls into place.

 

[Bishka]

ProfLogic-

No offense, but are you really going to try to tear down peoples faiths and tell them they are wrong when you are no clue what they believe or their religion is actually about?

You perceptions and observations are from a biased point of view aren't even close to the truth.

 

[Snowbear]

You perceptions and observations are from a biased point of view aren't even close to the truth.

:biglaugh:

 

[Bishka]

:biglaugh:

You have a problem with what I said?

Instead of laughing about it, how about telling me.

I was saying ProfLogic doesn't know the truth of our faiths - that's all I am saying. He's pretending to understand and know everything about our faiths, but he doesn't. I find it extremley childish that you would laugh at a statement, but then again -- that's just me, isn't it?

 

[Snowbear]

You have a problem with what I said?

Not at all.... I thought it was hilarious!

 

[Scuba Pete]

I beg to differ, in genesis it was physical.. garden for mans enjoyment, I don't believe it ever said look into your physical being. It even gave man a partner since it saw it was lonely, physically a woman.

Than how did man die in the garden? Obviously, it was a spiritual death, unless you think that zombies can give birth. Most people who can not or who simply refuse to see God for who he is make the mistake of trying to couch God in physical terms. God is spiritual, those who really want to worship him must do so in Spirit and in Truth. As for Adam's companion, surely you see women as MORE than just being physical? I for one appreciate a woman for who she is spiritually more than her physical attributes. I am sure that Adam had more than just the hots for Eve.

Have you had a real conversation with your god to be able to judge others as you are showing now?

While I exercise a modicum of discernment, I don't judge others.

truly its afraid thus wants humanity t

Your hate is obvious.

Then you are admitting that you do not need the guidance of the bible.

No, not at all. However, you can not understand what the scriptures mean without having the Spirit of God within you. Many deny the role of the Spirit in revelation while I embrace it.

 

[joeboonda]

It almost seems a waste of time to answer proflogics question, he does not really want to know the answer. He does not seem to want or feel a need to be saved. Well, the Bible is true, we are sinners. God poured His whole wrath of our sins on Christ (who is Immanuel, God with us, God in the flesh, a man, and God, a person of the trinity, like my wife and I are 2 persons, one flesh as the Bible says) Anyway, when God poured His full wrath for sins on Christ, God cannot abide sin and there was a separation there. Jesus endured this for all of us so we would never have to. That is the Good News, the Gospel, Jesus died, was buried, and rose again! He did this so we may freely have eternal life, our sins paid, and His robe of righteousness in place of our own filty rags. This is the Gospel truth, friends, accept it, reject it, but we have proclaimed it and know it is the truth.

 

[ProfLogic]

Than how did man die in the garden? Obviously, it was a spiritual death, unless you think that zombies can give birth. Most people who can not or who simply refuse to see God for who he is make the mistake of trying to couch God in physical terms. God is spiritual, those who really want to worship him must do so in Spirit and in Truth. As for Adam's companion, surely you see women as MORE than just being physical? I for one appreciate a woman for who she is spiritually more than her physical attributes. I am sure that Adam had more than just the hots for Eve. .

Flesh is physical not spiritual. It created adam without any knowlege of the spirit.....According to the bible eve was given to adam because adam was lonely..and on top of that was taken from himself, that sounds like incest......to me...

While I exercise a modicum of discernment, I don't judge others. Your hate is obvious.

I thought you do not judge but the hate you are refering to is non existant since as the forum says educate others.. another point of view... That seems to be the problem of believers, anything that do not agree with their beliefs automatically gets categorize as hate and as the bible says evil, it just anothers point of view, nothing else. All I am trying to convey is that there are other awareness on this world that probably majority of humans on earth do not understand, a few do but are afraid to discuss. I care less if people believe in the bible or not, denying humanity the knowledge that you have personally collected about these awareness that is the same as depicted in the bible is a personal choice. I wanted to share them cause it might save a life some day. Maybe one day it will reveal itself to you, but I say challenge it and you might have another perspective in the bible....

 

[ProfLogic]

It almost seems a waste of time to answer proflogics question, he does not really want to know the answer. He does not seem to want or feel a need to be saved. Well, the Bible is true, we are sinners. God poured His whole wrath of our sins on Christ (who is Immanuel, God with us, God in the flesh, a man, and God, a person of the trinity, like my wife and I are 2 persons, one flesh as the Bible says) Anyway, when God poured His full wrath for sins on Christ, God cannot abide sin and there was a separation there. Jesus endured this for all of us so we would never have to. That is the Good News, the Gospel, Jesus died, was buried, and rose again! He did this so we may freely have eternal life, our sins paid, and His robe of righteousness in place of our own filty rags. This is the Gospel truth, friends, accept it, reject it, but we have proclaimed it and know it is the truth.

The main question is why would jesus who as people claim part of the trinity and is a god say my god my god.... and the word forsaken. Here's a point of view. jesus was a man who was made believe that he was a god and in the end he knew he was a man because the awareness that was in his head went away and had abandoned him. He was expecting something else. Physical death is final. There is no more use for a human when its dead in this awareness' view.

 

[ProfLogic]

ProfLogic-

No offense, but are you really going to try to tear down peoples faiths and tell them they are wrong when you are no clue what they believe or their religion is actually about?

You perceptions and observations are from a biased point of view aren't even close to the truth.

If people decide to question their own faith that is their perogative. If someone's question the events documented by the translated bible which was collected by a few men 300 years after the last claimed bible author was alive and could not be verified and of which numerous religions came from which have their own beliefs, thats their opinion. By the way can you tell me who I said that they were wrong, as I said in my post.. no one is right or wrong when it comes to the bible, its the readers point of view........ I believe .. believers such as yourself would make that accusation.... since you are the only one that have a clue in religion.... as you seem to say....

 

[ProfLogic]

You have a problem with what I said?

Instead of laughing about it, how about telling me.

I was saying ProfLogic doesn't know the truth of our faiths - that's all I am saying. He's pretending to understand and know everything about our faiths, but he doesn't. I find it extremley childish that you would laugh at a statement, but then again -- that's just me, isn't it?

Point to my post that I claimed to understand your faith.. I just said that if you encounter this awareness that is on this earth you will understand the bible.That's my personal OP since I am the one who experienced it .. your faith, that has evolved so you can adore whatever you like... and the bible origin, do you have any idea of how the bible that most common men/women had came from, just curious?

 

[shema]

After his crucifixion, jesus uttered the words "My god my god why have you forsaken me", sounded like jesus admitting that he was but a man. If the self proclaimed bible god was truly jesus' father and that jesus was a god wouldn't he just say father you have forsaken me? The fact the he said this points to a strong evidence that jesus was a man that was convinced that he was a god. In the end he found out and it was too late thus he uttered these words in recognition of his failure to know that he was just a man. What's your perception?

the actual transilation from aramaic to english is as followes:46. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice and said, "Eil, Eil, l'mana sh'wik-thani?"*
47. Some of the people who stood there, however, as they heard this, said, "He is calling Eiliyah*."
48. And at once* one of them ran and took up a sponge and filled it with vinegar and placed it on a reed and raised it to him.
49. However, some others said, "Let us see if Eiliyah will come to save him."

50. Then again, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, and commended his soul.
51. And at once the front part* of the temple doors split* in two, from top to bottom, and there was an earthquake and the stones unraveled.
52. And the tombs opened up and the glorified bodies of many saints rose up.
53. And they went out and after their rising, they entered the holy city and were seen by many.

54. The centurion, however, and those who were with them, who guarded Jesus, as they saw the earthquakes and the things that happened, became really scared and said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

with the text in context. it just sounds like those were his last words as a human being.