Jesus said my god my god why have you forsaken me?

[TashaN]

It's true that a god won't call another god because once we call someone god he must be able to be fully God and the most simple act would be to defend himself from those who wants to hurt him. If you really believe that God is the one who created us then how come those human beings could crucify him?

We have to know that until now there is no proof that Jesus ever claim to be God.

Why is that? not only that, he also refused to be called "good", how about God?

 

[TashaN]

You certainly don't even need to use that example to prove that Jesus considered His Father to also be His God. There are two much better examples than that:

In John 14:28 (prior to His crucifixion), Jesus said to His Apostles, "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." And in John 20:17, we have an account of Jesus words to Mary on Easter morning when she first saw Him near the Garden tomb: "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God."

Neither of these verses proves that Jesus is not "God."

How come that a god is greater than another?

I thought they supposed to be equal !!!

say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God

Anything clearer than that?

He said already my father and your father; and to my God and your God which means he is just like us and equal to us.

It's clear just like the sun.

 

[ProfLogic]

the actual transilation from aramaic to english is as followes:46. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice and said, "Eil, Eil, l'mana sh'wik-thani?"*
47. Some of the people who stood there, however, as they heard this, said, "He is calling Eiliyah*."
48. And at once* one of them ran and took up a sponge and filled it with vinegar and placed it on a reed and raised it to him.
49. However, some others said, "Let us see if Eiliyah will come to save him."

50. Then again, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, and commended his soul.
51. And at once the front part* of the temple doors split* in two, from top to bottom, and there was an earthquake and the stones unraveled.
52. And the tombs opened up and the glorified bodies of many saints rose up.
53. And they went out and after their rising, they entered the holy city and were seen by many.

54. The centurion, however, and those who were with them, who guarded Jesus, as they saw the earthquakes and the things that happened, became really scared and said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

with the text in context. it just sounds like those were his last words as a human being.

Thats why it sounded like jesus during the night at the garden with 3 of his apostles made a deal with the self proclaimed god. He was expecting something possiibly after his arrest towards his crucifixion. Jesus did not see it thus he said why have you forsaken me, in the end since he still believes as many believers today he just said I commend my spirit, which was normal in those times since the teachings in the OT was everyone was the self proclaimed God's children.

In the NT it was claimed that jesus was a god since he was ressurected.. now I believe catholics do not consider mary as a god but as for that religion mary was resurrected to heaven body and soul......similar to the claims for jesus.

 

[ProfLogic]

How come that a god is greater than another?

I thought they supposed to be equal !!!

My main question to believers in the trinity is the bible is suppose to be considered in theology as monotheism.. why the multiple gods scenario.........?

 

[Snowbear]

...once we call someone god he must be able to be fully God and the most simple act would be to defend himself from those who wants to hurt him. If you really believe that God is the one who created us then how come those human beings could crucify him?

Why do you attempt to place limits on what God can and will do?

 

[TashaN]

Why do you attempt to place limits on what God can and will do?

Because it's nonsense.

For instance, i don't expect a Professor in my university to stand over his table and dance in the middle of the class. He is a human being like us but we don't expect from his this action even if he can do it, out of respect for himself and the people who respect him and his status.

Now you come and tell me that some creatures took God and crucfied him and they insulted him??????????????????

The one who created this universe, the heavens and the earth, the water and the fire.

A bunch of losers in the Roman army can capture him this way and insult him?

You don't want to admit it. No one can accept such a god to be his Lord.

Jesus was a man and he said that by himself but no one wants to believe.

Jesus never claim to be God but he was always saying that he is the son of MAN and the father is greater than him, and he was always saying your God and my God, your father and my father as he is the same as us.

Jesus was a great man but he wasn't and will never be a god, so don't put words in his mouth and claim what he didn't speak loud about it.

Jesus was just like us eating drinking then going where? to the toilet !!!

He is just a man and God also is surprised in how people think that's why he said in the holy Quran ...

[75] Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!


[76] Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah, He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."


[77] Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. (Quran, Surah 5:75-77)

 

[Snowbear]

Because it's nonsense.

So just because YOU think God wouldn't do something, it's OK to place limits on Him?
I thought placing limits on God was forbidden by the Quran. Is this not true?
Are you allowed to limit what God can and will do if you think something He could do is nonsense??

Now you come and tell me that some creatures took God and crucfied him and they insulted him??????????????????

The one who created this universe, the heavens and the earth, the water and the fire.

A bunch of losers in the Roman army can capture him this way and insult him?

No, it's not me who comes and tells you that. It's the Word of God that tells you that.

The only reason they were able to capture Him and crucify Him is because He LET them. He did it willfully - he went out to meet the soldiers and told them He was the one they sought. It was NOT done against His will. When one of His disciples tried to defend Him and lopped off the Roman soldier's ear, Jesus rebuked the disciple and asked why he thought that Jesus should not fulfill His purpose.

John 18:4 Then Jesus, knowing all things that were coming upon Him, went out and said to them, Whom do you seek?
5 They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said to them, I AM! And Judas who betrayed Him also stood with them.
6 Then as soon as He had said to them, I AM, they went backward and fell to the ground.
7 Then He asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I AM. Therefore if you seek Me, let these go away;
9 (that the word might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me, I have lost not one of them").
10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. And the servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, Put up your sword into the sheath. The cup which My Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?
12 Then the band, and the chiliarch, and under-officers of the Jews together seized Jesus and bound Him.
​

You don't want to admit it. No one can accept such a god to be his Lord.

I admit it every day and I fully accept this God to be my Lord and Savior.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
22 Now all this happened so that might be fulfilled that which was spoken of the LORD by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.
​

Jesus was a man and he said that by himself but no one wants to believe.

Yes He was and I believe He was a Man. I believe God emptied himself of everything except His holiness so He could completely be a Man while He was on earth. He was a humble, sinless Man. He was born in blood and fluids, ate, drank, grew, learned, pooped, bled, had emotions, was tempted just like any person.... except He did not sin. Ever. As God made into a Man, He was incapable of sinning.

Jesus never claim to be God ...

Yes He did. You just choose not to believe it.

 

[Genna]

I have searched long and hard on this thread to a previous query of mines, If Jesus is God, how can God have a God?

 

[Katzpur]

I have searched long and hard on this thread to a previous query of mines, If Jesus is God, how can God have a God?

"God" is a title given to deity. Jesus holds that title, but so does His Father. God the Father is supreme. In fact, Jesus specifically stated that His Father is greater than He is. But in relationship to us, they are both supreme.

 

[Scuba Pete]

We are only able to understand God as he fits into OUR reality. That we can't understand certain aspects of God is not only understandable, but proves that he is far superior to us.

Isaiah 40:28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom. 29 He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.
30 Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;
31 but those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint. NIV

 

[ProfLogic]

I have searched long and hard on this thread to a previous query of mines, If Jesus is God, how can God have a God?

Its because its based on the pagan beliefs... most stories of the bible came from pagan or babaylonian myths.... believers refuse to even examine this possibility.. thus a god has a god.... Gods have hierarchies in pagan beliefs........

 

[Scuba Pete]

Perhaps you have it backwards yet one more time. I would contend that the Pagan and Babylonian myths are predicated on stories from the scriptures. But then your logic has always seemed uber flawed to me.

Its because its based on the pagan beliefs... most stories of the bible came from pagan or babaylonian myths.... believers refuse to even examine this possibility.. thus a god has a god.... Gods have hierarchies in pagan beliefs........

 

[ProfLogic]

Perhaps you have it backwards yet one more time. I would contend that the Pagan and Babylonian myths are predicated on stories from the scriptures. But then your logic has always seemed uber flawed to me.

Lets see, the bible as you know it was compiled when? 397 AD at the Council of Carthage. The monks who translated it, I bet where truly inspired too as the original authors and so the monks decided to hand pick the books that today people claim the words of god.

You might want to also read the birth of tammuz....from the pagan religion... its about an immaculate conception... clearly before the birth of christ.

If this self proclaimed god wanted people to follow its rules, you would have thought that it would have given a material to man that can not be destroyed so that humanity can see it through out the years, and not the translated text... The Egyptian book of the death is more complete than the ten commandments.....

 

[Scuba Pete]

Lets see, the bible as you know it was compiled when? 397 AD at the Council of Carthage. The monks who translated it, I bet where truly inspired too as the original authors and so the monks decided to hand pick the books that today people claim the words of god.

You might want to also read the birth of tammuz....from the pagan religion... its about an immaculate conception... clearly before the birth of christ.

If this self proclaimed god wanted people to follow its rules, you would have thought that it would have given a material to man that can not be destroyed so that humanity can see it through out the years, and not the translated text... The Egyptian book of the death is more complete than the ten commandments.....

Clearly you have no concept of the power of God.

Matthew 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. NIV

God has given us a material that can not be destroyed or corrupted by you or any other human. He has given us his Spirit which is imperishable. Don't blame God if your heart is hardened against it.

 

[joeboonda]

I have searched long and hard on this thread to a previous query of mines, If Jesus is God, how can God have a God?

That is pretty far out, huh. Yet, I believe in only one God, but made up of three persons, all being equally God. Yet, Christ is God on earth, and became a man, so He has a different 'role' than God the Father, but is every bit God, not a God, but part of the triune God. To believe otherwise is polytheism, actually. Not the subject of the thread, but you can present a person with so much evidence and they still cling to their unbelief, (proflogic), its their choice. Upon examining the evidence, I and many others, who set out to disprove the Gospel, believe it. Peace.

 

[ProfLogic]

Clearly you have no concept of the power of God.

Matthew 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. NIV

God has given us a material that can not be destroyed or corrupted by you or any other human. He has given us his Spirit which is imperishable. Don't blame God if your heart is hardened against it.

As I mentioned before the bible that came from a counsel.. then you are admitting that these monks where under the direction of the self proclaimed god to collect the scriptures that had no passage numbers at all and later a king was also directed by the self proclaimed god to translate the bible of which scholars interpretations have been argued by other scholars.

The power of the self proclaimed god only exists because mankind had given the power to it. It pretty suspicious that the self proclaimed god wants to keep using mankind to take its orders and commandments. What would ever happen if it has to do things for itself, I just wonder?

 

[ProfLogic]

That is pretty far out, huh. Yet, I believe in only one God, but made up of three persons, all being equally God. Yet, Christ is God on earth, and became a man, so He has a different 'role' than God the Father, but is every bit God, not a God, but part of the triune God. To believe otherwise is polytheism, actually. Not the subject of the thread, but you can present a person with so much evidence and they still cling to their unbelief, (proflogic), its their choice. Upon examining the evidence, I and many others, who set out to disprove the Gospel, believe it. Peace.

As you admitted it you said 3.... which is multiple........its not mono....since you see them as 3 seperate gods with equal power. Which jesus if you consider him a god disagreed with thus said thy will be done in the garden... and also why have you forsaken me on the cross. It appears jesus was powerless to override the self proclaimed god. The voices in jesus' head possibly the same as Joan of arcs experience. What evidence did you examine? The best evidence is experience it for yourself and challenge it......

 

[joeboonda]

God became a man, Jesus submitted himself humbly before God, it makes Him no less God. He washed the disciples feet the night before He died, to teach them to serve one another in love. It makes Him no less God, actually, more. You do not believe in Jesus, why are you so concerned, anyway? Go live your life, let us love and worship our Lord.

 

[sojourner]

I have searched long and hard on this thread to a previous query of mines, If Jesus is God, how can God have a God?

Its because its based on the pagan beliefs... most stories of the bible came from pagan or babaylonian myths.... believers refuse to even examine this possibility.. thus a god has a god.... Gods have hierarchies in pagan beliefs........

Jesus, the Son, has a Father. God doesn't have a God. That's the difference between Christianity and Paganism.

Sometimes in the gospels, Jesus speaks of God, or even to God -- at that point, being fully human, Jesus has a God, just like any other human being. This fully-dual nature of Jesus -- both fully human and fully divine -- makes this concept difficult for our finite minds to understand in any fullness.

 

[ProfLogic]

Sometimes in the gospels, Jesus speaks of God, or even to God -- at that point, being fully human, Jesus has a God, just like any other human being. This fully-dual nature of Jesus -- both fully human and fully divine -- makes this concept difficult for our finite minds to understand in any fullness.

Are you saying that jesus just made a mistake using the word god since he is human? My point is if you know you are part of the god or even the god itself, why say my god if you know there is no other god?