After his crucifixion, jesus uttered the words "My god my god why have you forsaken me", sounded like jesus admitting that he was but a man. If the self proclaimed bible god was truly jesus' father and that jesus was a god wouldn't he just say father you have forsaken me? The fact the he said this points to a strong evidence that jesus was a man that was convinced that he was a god. In the end he found out and it was too late thus he uttered these words in recognition of his failure to know that he was just a man. What's your perception?
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Jesus said my god my god why have you forsaken me?
- Thread starter ProfLogic
- Start date
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
il divino said:
Unless, of course, one is predisposed to viewing the Bible as the only source for "facts" or "strong evidence."
AllisonW70
Member
I must admit that there was a time when I struggled with the exact same question. I questioned this until I came to understand the true meaning behind the crucifixion in the first place. On the cross, Jesus took the burden of our sin upon Himself. He was and is the sacrifice. That is what He came to do. We, as humans, fall short of God's glory every day. On the cross, Jesus paid the fine for our debt. My understanding is that as He took the sin of all humanity upon Himself, He became the living testament of what sin does: separates us from God. In that moment, Christ suffered the ultimate pain, the pain of our sin and the separation from God, as His body died. When we accept Him as our personal Lord and Savior, we know that our debt was paid that day. He was and is victorious over sin because He lives. That Is the Gospel. That is what it's all about.
d.
_______
ProfLogic said:
I hope that I shan't offend anyone by writing what I believe.
To my mind, Jesus Christ, who was a son of God (which we all are, because we are his children), spent an incarnation on Earth.
During that incarnation (which set him above others, in that he was born to a Virgin - a symbol of his purity - was still born as a human. Without doubt, a human who knew what his 'path' was to be; by that, I mean that he was aware of what he needed to accomplish in his life, but quite possibly did not know the details.
As we humans have, Jesus Christ had a soul from which he could not 'access' memories prior to his birth.
Therefore, it is my belief that he did not know the details of his death; only the purpose for which he was here, on Earth - just as some of us believe we know our purpose. I guess, when it came to the time, the realisation of what God expected of him was so staggering that he urttered those words.
But how can God seperate from Himself? To some, Jesus is God. Although Jesus never said he was God, some people believe he was. So how can God leave Himself? How can God be weak?AllisonW70 said:
Apparantly God says that He put a man in Jesus' image on the cross, and raised Jesus to safety before it happened. God claims that the ones who plotted against Jesus could not keep their plot secret from God, and then God planned also... and God is the best of planners.
So let's say that it was a man in Jesus' image that God placed on the cross. Would it make more sense for someone who was put in this scenario to ask "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"... I think it makes a lot more sense... especially because hadith says it was an enemy of Jesus who he placed on the cross, and an enemy of Jesus was more than likely sure that he was following the right path... hence "Why have you forsaken me?"
I think it makes sense, but I'm sure many will disagree... which is fine and dandy. What do you guys think?
ProfLogic said:
I don't understand? what do you mean "a" god? I thought there was only one true God according to Christianity and all others are false? If Jesus was "a" god, than either there is more than one God or he is a false god! I think it is safe to say that he was just a holy man, nothing more, nothing less!
Jesus had taken all the sin of the world on himself and when one is full of sin (or even one sin) they are seperated from God. In that moment, God had seperated himself from Jesus (forsaken him).
Jesus was a man. He was fully God and fully man. He had to be fully man in order to die on the cross.
Jesus was a man. He was fully God and fully man. He had to be fully man in order to die on the cross.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make up the trinity. They are three persons that make up one entity. How God can be in heaven and Jesus be on earth at the same time...I don't know. That's beyond my own understanding. But it was so.
Matthew 3:16-17 ----> You have God in heaven, the spirit decending, and Jesus in the river all in one "place".
Matthew 3:16-17 ----> You have God in heaven, the spirit decending, and Jesus in the river all in one "place".
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
ProfLogic said:
You have to keep in mind Christ's ultimate PURPOSE while on earth. His purpose was to show us how to live for God...how to obey God, how to commune with God in a Parent/Child relationship. Christ didn't need to prove His divinity because that's not why He was here. He was here to show us the way that we should live our lives for God. He was here to first and foremost, become the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, so that we COULD be saved. And He was here to teach us the type of life we should live as God's children...and how one is to lay down their flesh to live in the spirit.
Christ was a man. He was also very much God. Fully man. Fully God. Who better to show us how to Live for God than God Himself?
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
ProfLogic said:
Since the nature of Jesus' divinity is not integral to my religion, I suppose I don't really care about that part of the question. My perception is that the words speak of a person or being that understood suffering. I find it puzzling, though, that the matter should matter enough to a person not of that faith enough that they'd try to poke holes in the bubble-wrap of the spirituality of another person.
AllisonW70
Member
sparkyluv said:
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You certainly don't even need to use that example to prove that Jesus considered His Father to also be His God. There are two much better examples than that:ProfLogic said:
In John 14:28 (prior to His crucifixion), Jesus said to His Apostles, "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." And in John 20:17, we have an account of Jesus words to Mary on Easter morning when she first saw Him near the Garden tomb: "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God."
Neither of these verses proves that Jesus is not "God." But they do prove that the God the Father is supreme. More to the point, it is quite impossible to forsake oneself.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well you might want to start out by trying to find anywhere is the Bible where God is described as being "omnipresent." Good luck.Genna said:
The Bible never describes God (i.e. God the Father) as being everywhere at once. It specifically states, on multiple occasions, in fact, that He is "in Heaven." Jesus Christ was, for the period of 34 years, "on Earth." How someone can be everywhere at once and yet simultansously physically occupy space on Earth is beyond me. But then what do I know, believing, as I do, in a God who is a bit schizoid?