anonymous9887
bible reader
I can get into the usage of flesh but there would be no point.
The answer to you original question is "jesus is a descendant of abraham , Isaac, Jacob, David, and many more, the descendant of jews, being a Jew himself.
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Jesus is God.
- Thread starter Templar of Truth
- Start date
The answer to you original question is "jesus is a descendant of abraham , Isaac, Jacob, David, and many more, the descendant of jews, being a Jew himself.
anonymous9887
bible reader
I have stated my position and provided references, Jesus is not the Almighty god.
JustWondering
Jerk
Most Christians I've met in RL are embarrassingly ignorant about what is in the bible and what it means to be Christian. Most non-Christians I've met in RL stopped being Christian after studying the bible and educating themselves about Christianity. I find it humorously ironic.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
[Jesus is God ???!!!
Simply wrong, Jesus was never god.
4th Argument:
From Bible: #45#76 #82]
And one should know that god is not a descendant of Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, David; Jesus is just human with flesh and bones and everything in a human as in Adam. Jesus himself said he is son of Adam. Believe his words. Will one?
Regards
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jaybird
Member
do you think Paul sowed these seeds deliberately or was his teachings genuine but misused later? there was a lot of innocent blood shed on his hand before he became a church leader but also much compassion in his teachings.
anonymous9887
bible reader
Dude I don't believe Jesus is god, and even I tell you that you have to use scriptural references if you are trying to help people get to truth.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Paul did it deliberately.
Regards
anonymous9887
bible reader
Again you are just providing your opinion. Where are the references?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
You know that for a fact, do you?
jaybird
Member
im not sure i agree but i will say i would not put one of pauls teaching on the same level as a teaching of Jesus.
When Jesus said that "before Abraham, I am"...have you looked up how often Jesus used that expression in his everyday speech? (John 4:26; 5:36; 6:35, 51; 7:8....There are literally hundreds more.) He said it so many times in the Gospels, but for some reason this one scripture in John is singled out as proof that Jesus is claiming to be God. It is the same expression in each case, with nothing to indicate a different meaning in John 8:58....except when pro-trinitarian translations use capital letters to make it appear to be a title. It isn't and it has no connection to Ex 3:14 at all.
In John 8:58, Jesus is answering a question about his age, saying that before Abraham was even born, he was in existence.
This is backed up by the following scriptures, none of which indicate a trinity.
Proverbs 8:22:
"Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago."
John 17:5:
"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."
Philippians 2:6, 7:
"who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human."
Colossians 1:15-17:
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist"
anonymous9887
bible reader
If we believe 2 timothy 3:16 we believe that the words jesus spoke and the scriptures written by the apostles were all inspired of god.
jaybird
Member
i have no doubt they were inspired. but there is a difference between inspiration and the voice of the Almighty Himself.
paul claims to have authority to teach but his only witness is himself. when Jesus was baptized the Father spoke and there were many witnesses. i think pauls teaching can be learned from but would not establish a belief from him unless i could confirm it with the Father or Son. paul is a good teacher, good church father well read in scripture but he was not a prophet of the Lord nor was he one of the 12. and those things mean something.
anonymous9887
bible reader
So you don't believe pauls words are inspired?
jaybird
Member
i remember Jesus taught you need 2 or 3 witnesses to establish every word
anonymous9887
bible reader
So were the miracles or supernatural occurences paul performed, from god or satan? Or was acts made up?
jaybird
Member
i really dont know. im not calling paul a false teacher im saying paul is not Jesus so therefore his teaching is not the same.
That is certainly true, but I cannot understand why some think that Paul promoted a trinity?
1 Cor 8:5, 6:
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."
Paul seems to have a very clear understanding about the nature of God. There is a one who is identified as "One God, the Father" and "One Lord Jesus Christ"....no holy spirit is mentioned and Jesus is not included in the definition of that "one God".
If Jesus himself calls his Father the "only true God" and says that we are to worship "him alone" (John 17:3; Luke 4:8) I can see that there is more scriptures that disproves the trinity than there is to support it. It has to be read into the text by those who want it to be there.
There is not one clear reference to a godhead, or any verse in the NT stating that three persons inhabit one head.
Jesus was Jewish and they believed that "God is one" (Deut 6:4)....not three.
Just as an interesting side point....Paul was not educated by the other apostles...he was educated in the same way as the others...by Jesus himself. So what he taught came from his Lord and Master. The big difference between Paul and the other apostles was his background and education, both of which were put to good use by Jesus in furthering the good news.
jaybird
Member
i agree with you. i dont think he taught the trinity. i was thinking of posting some of his teachings but u beat me to it.
paul may have got a bad rap being as rome based many of their false doctrines off pauls teachings taken out of context.
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