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Featured Jesus as a Jew...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ellen Brown, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Marc Anthony was born 14 January 83 BC
    Rome, Roman Republic
    Died 1 August 30 BC (aged 53)
    Alexandria, Ptolemaic Egypt
     
    #41 sooda, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2019
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The fate of Alexander Helios is unknown. Plutarch, Cassius Dio and Suetonius state that Octavian killed Antony's son Marcus Antonius Antyllus and Cleopatra's son with Julius Caesar, Caesarion.[8] The only further mention of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus comes from Cassius Dio, who states that when their sister Cleopatra Selene II married King Juba II, Octavian (then named Augustus) spared the lives of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus as a favor to the couple.[9] After Helios arrived in Rome, he disappears from historical records, implying that he died before reaching maturity.
     
  3. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like "The Davinci Code" and I wasn't impressed with that either

    And did the Piso family write the Epistles and book of Revelation? seems more than a stretch

    Tekton has an analysis of the claim
    Abelard Reuchlin/Roman Piso theory, response

    "...It would be an overstatement to say that no one takes this group -- whose overall thesis is that the NT was authored by members of an aristocratic Roman family to keep slaves under control and submissive -- seriously...."
     
    #43 whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  4. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    Hi,
    This is just to objectively answer the question raised in this OP.
    Reading both the bible and the Quran will lead to one clear view:
    As man tend to distort the religion with the passage of time..
    Judaism was not an exception..
    So Jesus was sent to the Jews calling them to return to the path of God..
    So we can't call Jesus a Jew..
    On the contrary, the bible is clear about how Jesus was killed.
    regards
     
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I suppose that is my next task.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was most certainly a Jew.
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    As Salaam Alaikum:

    I had thought that the Shia and Sunni stories about Jesus (Isa PBUH) was the same ... that Judas was thought to be Jesus and was crucified, and Jesus slipped away. At least that was the story when I was first introduced to very radical Sunni Islam. Has this changed since 2005?

    Ma Salaama
     
  8. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Its the same Jesus.. the purest of the prophets.. a man without sin.. They just don't think God has children.
     
  10. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I struggle with that idea the most.
     
  11. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Prince Alexander III Helios was apparently not as much Hellenized as he was anti-Herodian. It appears that Prince Heli had the same aspirations and hopes for “Israel” as the high priest within the temple at Jerusalem. In the era in which parents chose the husband of their daughters, Heli found favor with the High Priest Yeshua III. Now this high priest was the son of Phabi, the founder of the House of Phabit, and the grandson of Boethus, that Alexandrian Zadokian priest that King Herod in 37 BCE asked to return to Jerusalem in order to restore the Zadokian dynastic reign again over the office of the high priest. Herod’s reasons were more subliminal and sinister, for he eventually plotted to eliminate the Maccabees from holding either royal or priestly offices in Jerusalem and eliminate their presence entirely from Judea. Was Prince Heli, or his father, Mattathias ben Levi, approached by the high priest for the young Davidian was a potential candidate to marry one of his three daughters, Hannah or Anna?

    Yehoshua ben Miriam (Jesus son of Mary)

    Though the evidence is only circumstantial, it is suggested by David Hughes and other genealogist that the wife of Mattan ben Levi, called Esther of Jerusalem, was actually the Jewish name of the last Maccabee Queen, whose later Greek regnal name was Queen Alexandra II. Before Alexandra became a Maccabee Queen with her 2nd marriage to Maccabee King Alexander II, her cousin, and later her 3rd marriage to Maccabee King Antigonus, also her cousin, she was married to a Nasi and Prince of Israel, called Mattathias. Was this Mattathias also the person as Mattan ben Levi, the father of Heli, the grandfather of Mary, and the great grandfather of Yehoshua (Jesus)? The evidence suggests the affirmative.

    The name of the children of this union between Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel and Princess Alexandra II, prior to 49 BCE was Prince Alexander III Helios (the Biblical Heli) and his sister, Princess Alexandra III. This young Davidian and Maccabee princess later became the wife of Ptolemy Bar Mennius, a Babylonian Exilarch whose descendants are traced to Europe today.

    We ask again, was this Davidian Nasi Prince Mattan ben Levi, the same Nasi as Prince Mattathias, who married the Maccabee Princess, and future Maccabee Queen, as the daughter of the Maccabee Priest-King Hyrcanus II and through this union had a son called Prince Alexander III “Helios”?

    Because he was of Idumaean/Hittite/Macedonian descent, and hated by the Jews, he attempted to appease them by marrying a Jewess by the name Mariamne, a descendant of the Maccabees family of Jewish patriots, whom he actually loved. Mariamne, was the daughter of Alexandra, an heir from the old ruling Hasmonaean line had insisted that her brother be appointed high priest,

    Prince Alexander Helios III, the Grandfather of Jesus, was the adopted son of the future Maccabee Queen Alexandra II, who at this time was known by her Jewish name, Esther of Jerusalem. Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel

    His 1st wife, Esther of Jerusalem, became the mother of Heli ben Mattat or Prince Alexander Helios III. He became the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus. Esther of Jerusalem can be identified as the future Maccabee Queen known by her Greek name as Queen Alexandra II, who was the great grandmother of Yeshua (Jesus).Jan 18, 2017
     
  12. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    And what are Israelites?
     
  13. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    First you need to choose whether you want Mary to be a Priest or an Israelite. Then you can decide which genealogy is the right one.
     
  14. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    The Christian position is that both Mary and Joseph shared bloodline back to David. I do not know if this is credible.
     
  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I think you told me to read something by a person who lived about the 4th century who started Christianity? Sorry, I did not write it down and now can't remember what it was?
     
  16. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    There is only one genealogy of Jesus in the bible, and there is no such thing as a female priest, in the Jewish religion, and all Jews are Israelites.
     
  17. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    All Jews are Israelites, but there is a division by camp and they are the Priest, Levite and Israelite. While a woman cannot be a priest in the Temple, that doesn't mean that she cannot be part of the Priest or Levite camps - and as a part of those camps, she has different Laws than do women not part of those camps. In Jewish Law, a woman follows the camp and/or tribe of her father and then husband. But all of that is totally irrelevant to what I was in my previous comment.
    The point I was trying to make is that in one comment you have her descending from the Priestly line and in another from the Judahite line. Her paternal line can only follow one of these and the rest are irrelevant. So you should pick which one you want her to descend from and use that one.
     
  18. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Mary and Joseph the biological parents of Jesus, were both sired by Alexander Helios III, through different mothers, And Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Matthat, who was a descendant of Nathan
    the stepson of David and one of three sons of Uriah and Bathsheba, before Bathsheba bore Solomon to King David.​
     
    #58 The Anointed, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  19. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Sorry sunshine, the tribe of Levi are Israelites, and I have never said anything about Jesus having supposedly descended through the family of Judah.
     
  20. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    There's just soo much you don't know.
    And I have never said anything about Jesus.
     
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