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Featured Jesus as a Jew...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ellen Brown, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence that Alexander Helios lived beyond the age of 14. I have noticed how you parade your claims all over the net and insult everyone who disagrees with you.
    How many virgin births listed in the Bible? | Debate.org
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Your version of events and motives is interesting.
     
  3. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Not going to argue with you. Go your way in peace.
     
  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised." Unquote

    We Muslims specifically Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim believe in Jesus, Mary, Moses, Adam and Abraham; as also other messengers/prophets of G-d (Bahaullah excluded) and their life accounts because Quran mentions them, strictly as mentioned by Quran. And other narratives (like OT-Torah or NT-Bible and Hadith,Shia or Sunni or any other traditions/sayings) that don't contradict with Quran.

    "In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised."

    Because that mars the personality and Character of Jesus, making him an imperfect man and god Jesus never was. We cannot, emphasis cannot, believe in such an imperfect god as depicted in NT Bible, please.

    Sorry, no disrespect intended to anybody or anybody's faith. Everybody is entitled to believe in any faith/religion with reason or absolute no reason. They must to continue to believe, as they want and wish to.

    Right, please?

    Regards
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "I know that there were thirteen tribes of Israel and Levi was one such tribe."

    Please name them as Jacob/Israel had only twelve sons. Where does come another one to make them thirteen, please:

    Jacob's twelve sons, named in Genesis, were Reuben, Simeon,Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun,Joseph, and Benjamin. His only daughter mentioned in Genesis is Dinah. The twelve sons became the progenitors of the "Tribes of Israel".
    Jacob - Wikipedia
    Jacob - Wikipedia

    Regards
     
  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    In post # 77, You make a statement as if it is an absolute fact; “Alexander Helios died young…. He didn’t father any children.

    Then, like a reed blowing in the wind, in your very next post, you cast doubt on your supposed fact, by saying in your post # 78; Alexander Helios and Philadelphus, had disappeared from all known historical records and are PRESUMED to have died, POSSIBLY from illness or assassination.

    IF, and I repeat ‘IF’ he had died, and IMO and that of many others, he did not die until he was eliminated by the cruel and tyrannical King Herod the Great as a threat to his throne , in 13 B.C. But ‘IF’ he had died as you PRESUME, what makes you think that it was POSSIBLY from illness or assassination, he could have POSSIBLY had an accident and fell over a cliff. You haven’t got a clue, as to whether he died or how he died.

    There is no historical record, apart from the scriptures, that Philadelphus/Philip of Bethsaida, the son of Herod the Great (A lifelong friend of Mark Antony) and his young Jewess wife, named ‘Cleopatra,’ (Cleopatra, is a Macedonian name) who disappears from the pages of history, in the year of the death of Jesus, actually died in that year, but it is PRESUMED by the historian who reject the scriptures, that he Did die in that year.

    Sooda wrote……. Post # 79: POSSIBLY died between 29 and 25. No marriages or children are known.

    The Anointed…… IMO, Prince Alexander Helios III, the Grandfather of Jesus, was the adopted son of the future Maccabee Queen Alexandra II, who at this time was known by her Jewish name, Esther of Jerusalem. Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel

    His 1st wife, Esther of Jerusalem, became the mother of Heli ben Mattat or Prince Alexander Helios III, who became the father of Mary the mother of Jesus. Esther of Jerusalem can be identified as the future Maccabee Queen known by her Greek name as Queen Alexandra II, who was the great grandmother of Yeshua (Jesus).Jan 18, 2017

    It is said that after the death of her father, Alexander Helios=Heli, “who was a father of renowned,” the seven-year-old Mary [who is believed to be the grand-daughter of Mark Antony] was removed from her mother and taken north into the land of Galilee, where she was raised under the protection of the Jewish zealots whose aim it was, to throw off the yoke of Roman rule and establish a descendant of King David, back on the throne of Israel.

    There are those who believe that the union between Mary, the daughter of Alexander Helios, with her half-brother Joseph the son of Heli, from which union the child Jesus was born, was arranged by the Zealots.

    It would appear that Mary’s aunty Elizabeth, the sister to Hanna the mother of Mary, was also a part of this conspiracy. After the Greek Messenger (Gabriel is the spiritual head of the Greeks) had told Mary that she was to become the mother of a son, who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ and told her that her aged aunty was already six months pregnant, Mary, undoubtedly chaperoned by her zealot guardians, packed her gear and traveled down to a town in the hill country that once belonged to the lost tribe of Benjamin, where many friends and members of the family had gathered to rejoice in the fact that a woman of her age could still become pregnant.

    As soon as Mary walked through the door of her aunties house, Elizabeth cried out in Luke 1: 45; “Blessed are you to believe that the Lord’s message to you will come true.”

    Mary stayed in the house of her aunty for three months, after which she was found to be pregnant to her half-brother ‘Joseph,’ the son of her father, ’Alexander Helios III.’

    The question must now be asked; “How in heavens name did Elizabeth know that the messenger had told Mary while she was still in Nazareth, that she would conceive and bear a son who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ unless she was a part of the conspiracy.

    But because Joseph the son of Alexander Helios and any male offspring of his, would have been seen as a threat to the throne of Herod the Great, as was his father, the biological father of Jesus had to remain hidden, and for the safety of the child, the pregnant Mary, was married off to Joseph the son of Jacob, a descendant of the cursed genetic line of King Jehoiachin, who at that time lived in Nazareth, the zealot commune.

    Herod’s chief advisers, would not have seen Jesus, who they believed was the son of Joseph ben Jacob as a threat to the throne of Herod, because Mary, unbeknown to the Jewish authorities was already pregnant to her half-brother “Joseph the son of Alexander Helios,” and was taken to wife by Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah.

    This Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and who was only the step-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Solomon through the cursed line of Jehoiachin, of whom we read in Jeremiah 22: 30; “This man is condemned to lose his children, to be a man who will never succeed. He will have no descendants who will rule in Judah as David’s successor. I, the Lord, have spoken.”

    This rules out the hope of any son of Joseph ben Jacob ever sitting on the throne of David, whereas Jesus the son of Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios was a legitimate successor to that throne.

    BTW, thanks for the link which reveals that The Anointed, is also ‘Gentorev’ on another forum, and “The Tongue,’ on still another forum, and also “The S-word,’ on yet another forum.

    The S-word of God. The sharp two edged Tongue, that cuts all the way through to the division of the Soul and the spirit.

    Elijah, who was carried up to stand by Enoch’s side
    Stood by the brook at Kishon where the priests of Baal all died
    It was He, who gave the order and the waters all ran red
    As fifty and eight hundred more, false prophets all fell dead.
    Will you fight the war ‘gainst ignorance, the war that will be won
    By those who wield the S-word of God, the sharp two edge-ed Tongue….The Anointed.
     
  7. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 48: 5; Jacob continued; “Joseph, your two sons, who were born to you in Egypt before I came here belong to me: Ephraim and Manasseh are as much my sons as Reuben and Simeon.”
    Jacob, adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own sons, thereby dividing Joseph into two tribes, making the thirteen tribes of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Zebulun Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin.
    The 144,000 chosen ones recorded in Rev 7: 5-8, which are chosen from 12 of the thirteen tribes of Israel, excludes the tribe of Dan.
     
  8. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Right, and I respect people trying to follow their best understanding of the truth.

    However the Jesus of the Koran and the Jesus of the Bible have some stunning things in common (virgin born, sinless, Messiah, a prophet) and some significant differences as well. (son of God, died for sins, rose from the dead)
     
  9. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The Jesus of the bible is not virgin born.
     
  10. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Why might you think that?

    In any case both the Koran and the Bible agree that Jesus was virgin born.
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    So prove Helios was the father of Mary. He was living in Rome as a young teen when his story ends.
     
  12. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    Wa Alaikum As-Salamu dear sister,

    At least when it comes to the last days of Jesus on earth, both of the Shiites and the Sunnis are generally in agreement, as the story is generally mentioned in the Quran itself.

    Also, short time ago we have posted here in RFs an important Hadith on the issue, which was shared by both, the Shiites and the Sunnis, in their Hadith books.

    Here is the link to the related page:

    https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-jesus-crucified-or-not.217361/page-9#post-5959281

    All the best

    Dr. Saydan
     
  13. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I think in reading the bible and looking a bit at other ancient theology, a picture starts to form of it being a bit of an amalgam. A lot of other areas had stories about floods and especially giants as one example, and it's not exactly clear who started that trend. In this book by spinoza that I'm reading, he says that the book of job must have been originally gentile since it was translated into hebrew. By the time of the book of daniel some say there was lots of greek theology influencing the what was written, with the idea of heaven/hell and the end of the world sort of sneaking in. Then with christianity, I think early catholicism integrated plenty of paganism with sainted gods, holy days, and traditions.
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Adopted one does not make the true son.
    Regards
     
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