jesus and paul are polar opposites...

[waitasec]

Well, gee, I was lookig for something other than a person opinion... something more like a valid Biblical position.

well you're no fun.
it seems you have nothing to add and you don't want to explain yourself...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

well you're no fun.
it seems you have nothing to add and you don't want to explain yourself...

Oh, I don't know, I suppose there is a difference between judging the correctness of disputes between two Christians and, say, judging my neighbor negatively because he got remarried.

 

[waitasec]

Oh, I don't know, I suppose there is a difference between judging the correctness of disputes between two Christians and, say, judging my neighbor negatively because he got remarried.

and why are they given the ok to judge when jesus says...
luke 6
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

a follower of christ does not judge a follower of christ forgives

 

[sojourner]

Well, gee, I was lookig for something other than a person opinion... something more like a valid Biblical position.

You specifically asked her for "your version" of what it means, not a biblical position.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

and why are they given the ok to judge when jesus says...
luke 6
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

a follower of christ does not judge a follower of christ forgives

Obviously there are more than one kind of judgments.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You specifically asked her for "your version" of what it means, not a biblical position.

Yeah, my bad. See signature.

 

[waitasec]

Obviously there are more than one kind of judgments.

i thought we were discussing the judgments made by people judging each other...

 

[Pegg]

and why are they given the ok to judge when jesus says...
luke 6
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

a follower of christ does not judge a follower of christ forgives

Paul wasnt talking about us judging each other....he was speaking to Christians with a heavenly calling who would be ruling with Christ in heaven as kings and priests. They will then be judging the nations alongside Christ as members of the heavenly kingdom of God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

i thought we were discussing the judgments made by people judging each other...

We are.

 

[waitasec]

Paul wasnt talking about us judging each other....he was speaking to Christians with a heavenly calling who would be ruling with Christ in heaven as kings and priests. They will then be judging the nations alongside Christ as members of the heavenly kingdom of God.

paul:
And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
jesus:
do not judge

pretty clear to me.

 

[Pegg]

paul:
And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
jesus:
do not judge

pretty clear to me.

context context context


some in the congregation where taking their christian brothers to law courts to settle disputes... Paul was reminding them that one day they themselves would be judges of the whole world so why not learn to settle matters among yourselves now

Paul didnt want christians fighting each other in courts, he wanted them to settle their issues between them like brothers should.

 

[waitasec]

context context context


some in the congregation where taking their christian brothers to law courts to settle disputes... Paul was reminding them that one day they themselves would be judges of the whole world so why not learn to settle matters among yourselves now

Paul didnt want christians fighting each other in courts, he wanted them to settle their issues between them like brothers should.

paul should have reminded them of what jesus said...
luke 6:29 If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

context context context
seems pretty inclusive

 

[Pegg]

paul should have reminded them of what jesus said...
luke 6:29 If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

context context context
seems pretty inclusive

maybe Paul did remind them of Jesus words.

And Jesus words really demonstrate that Paul and Jesus were on the same page. jesus told people to love even their enemies and to do good to them.... Paul told those in the congregation to stop fighting with each other in law courts and to settle matters peacefully.

same page.

 

[waitasec]

maybe Paul did remind them of Jesus words.

And Jesus words really demonstrate that Paul and Jesus were on the same page. jesus told people to love even their enemies and to do good to them.... Paul told those in the congregation to stop fighting with each other in law courts and to settle matters peacefully.

same page.

nope not even close.
paul says that believers are to be able to judge for themselves as jesus clearly says that if there is a dispute it is because they lent something while expecting to get something back...
not the same page, not even the same book.

 

[Pegg]

nope not even close.
paul says that believers are to be able to judge for themselves as jesus clearly says that if there is a dispute it is because they lent something while expecting to get something back...
not the same page, not even the same book.

Jesus was talking about judging the sins of others .... not judging the circumstances of how to resolve a difference between two people

But like Paul, Jesus also gave instruction on how to resolve personal differences.
Matthew 5:23 “If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift

That is exactly what Paul was talking about... making peace with your brother rather then taking them to court and fighting it out there. Jesus and Paul were on the same wave length in this example.

 

[Awoon]

Making peace saves one lawyer fees.

 

[waitasec]

Jesus was talking about judging the sins of others .... not judging the circumstances of how to resolve a difference between two people

he said do not judge, lest ye be judged. period.

But like Paul, Jesus also gave instruction on how to resolve personal differences.
Matthew 5:23 “If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift

this is different...he didn't say if you had something against your brother rather if your brother had something against you.
jesus is putting the burden on the one who wronged to make it right.
jesus was talking about something completely different
why else would someone have something against you if you hadn't wronged them?
paul said christians are to judge the world...
jesus never said a thing about that.

That is exactly what Paul was talking about... making peace with your brother rather then taking them to court and fighting it out there. Jesus and Paul were on the same wave length in this example.

paul was arrogant. his disposition was that believers were morally superior to non believers, clearly not true.

 

[Pegg]

he said do not judge, lest ye be judged. period.

paul said christians are to judge the world...
jesus never said a thing about that.

Jesus
Luke 22:28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

Paul
1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters?

John
Revelation 2:26 And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations,

Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them
Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.


Paul is saying the same thing that Jesus and John also said. They are not polar opposites at all. Paul was a wonderful man who was commissioned by Jesus and suffered greatly for the work he did as a christian missionary. He was a faithful and true witness bearer.

 

[waitasec]

Jesus
Luke 22:28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

YOU=disciples...context context context...the setting is the last supper
and they were arguing who would be the greatest in heaven

24 A dispute also arose among THEM as to which of THEM was considered to be greatest. 25 Jesus said to THEM, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But YOU [THEM] are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among YOU [THEM] should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among YOU [THEM] as one who serves. 28 YOU [THEM] are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on YOU [THEM] a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that YOU [THEM] may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

besides the 12 tribes of israel isn't the entire world...

Paul
1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters?

John
Revelation 2:26 And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations,

Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them
Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.


Paul is saying the same thing that Jesus and John also said. They are not polar opposites at all. Paul was a wonderful man who was commissioned by Jesus and suffered greatly for the work he did as a christian missionary. He was a faithful and true witness bearer.

so? you haven't added anything.
jesus said the last shall be first.

 

[javajo]

I think if one wants to, they can come up with all sorts of seeming contradictions between Jesus and Paul so they can discredit the Bible. Others of us see harmony and completeness in our understanding of the Bible. I think Peter put it well:

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 2 Peter 3:15-17