Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The problem is that her family is Jehovah Witness members. If one goes against the teachings of the church members are eventually shunned. It can be very hard on a person to have all contact with their family ended.
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I've Sacrificed my belief in Evolution for Religion
- Thread starter NathantheProfit
- Start date
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Now how would you know what's going on in their minds? Many Christians, not just Mormons, accept evolution as a fact. They just believe that God directs the process. They may talk about Adam and Eve in a church setting (as I might) but realize (as I do) that they didn't just get deposited here on earth on "Day 6" as the first homo-sapiens, all of the animals having been deposited here on "Day 5." I know that doesn't make sense to a lot of people, but for millions of us, it does.
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I was just digging up vague memories of an interview with some professor from Brigham Young done some years ago. He impressed me as wise to compartmentalize his views because he said he could not reconcile them, if I now recall correctly.
I compartmentalize some views myself when I know two things are both true yet I have as yet no way of reconciling the two.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I was being sensitive.Please be sensitive when saying things like that. You have no idea how some people might take it.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Haven't faced that sort of dilemma though.
God hates liars. The Bible says so. So if the church wants to lie about it I would have no dilemma.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
"If the tenets of young earth creationism were true, basically all of the sciences of geology, cosmology, and biology would utterly collapse. It would be the same as saying 2 plus 2 is actually 5. The tragedy of young-earth creationism is that it takes a relatively recent and extreme view of Genesis, applies to it an unjustified scientific gloss, and then asks sincere and well-meaning seekers to swallow this whole, despite the massive discordance with decades of scientific evidence from multiple disciplines. Is it any wonder that many sadly turn away from faith concluding that they cannot believe in a God who asks for an abandonment of logic and reason?"--Dr. Francis Collins, "Faith and the Human Genome"
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."--Galileo Galilei
I see no reason you cant believe in aspects of both. I do.
Excellent quote!
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
You'd have to ask a theist who is somehow capable of turning off the logical reasoning part of their brain. Personally I've never understood how anyone can do so. The bigger question is, why would you possible WANT to be able to disregard logic and reason? What kind of a loving family insists that you live a lie?
Now this is deceptive, saying "lawyers" are behind it, as if there are no scientists supporting it!
Just because science chooses to restrict itself in pursuing subjects that can be tested, ie., falsified, and ignores the concepts it can't test, like invisible life and events in which people have paranormal experiences, in no way negates these things existing!!
"You won't be able to. Once you have understood the scienc,e you will not be able to put that genie back in the bottle."
Please! I've known of several scientists and biology professors -- a couple of them personally -- who towed the line while working, they had to, to make a living.....the DI can't financially support everyone....but they abandoned those beliefs, once they retired!
Richard Sternberg is a good example of what happens when you veer from the herd mentality.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Just meditate on “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”
Edit: Audie was so nice to warn me in time, that this quote was not made by A.Einstein
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james blunt
Well-Known Member
Audie
Veteran Member
First off, he didnt say that.
And second, anyone who has done lab work knows that
is exactly what to expect.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Read the Wedge Strategy document. This was drawn up by Philip Johnson, a lawyer who describes himself as "father" of the intelligent design movement,
Phillip E. Johnson - Wikipedia
with the explicit object of getting God back into US society by a variety of means, prominent among which was to get religion taught in the schools. This was done via the introduction of the idea of an "intelligence", never to be referred to as God of course, as that would break the law.
Here are some quotations from the Wiki entry on the Wedge Strategy:
QUOTE
Elaborating on the goals and methods of wedge strategy, Johnson stated in an interview conducted in 2002 for Touchstone Magazine that
"The mechanism of the wedge strategy is to make it attractive to Catholics, Orthodox, non-fundamentalist Protestants, observant Jews, and so on."
He went on to elaborate:
"So the question is: "How to win?" That's when I began to develop what you now see full-fledged in the "wedge" strategy: "Stick with the most important thing" —the mechanism and the building up of information. Get the Bible and the Book of Genesis out of the debate because you do not want to raise the so-called Bible-science dichotomy. Phrase the argument in such a way that you can get it heard in the secular academy and in a way that tends to unify the religious dissenters. That means concentrating on, "Do you need a Creator to do the creating, or can nature do it on its own?" and refusing to get sidetracked onto other issues, which people are always trying to do."
Other statements of Johnson's acknowledge that the goal of the intelligent design movement is to promote a theistic and creationist agenda cast as a scientific concept:
"Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools."
and
"This isn't really, and never has been a debate about science. Its about religion and philosophy."
The whole Wiki article is here: Wedge strategy - Wikipedia
This is why I say Intelligent Design is deceitful.
The reasons why it is not science, I have elaborated for you on another thread.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
You know, if he were a good example, he would not be the only example
but of course, it is not about veering from "the herd mentality" anyway.
IF you had a case to present, you'd not have to misrepresent anything, would you?
Anyone who, btw, "abandoned a belief" when he retired, had no intellecual
integrity in the first place, and whatever they think or dont think now
is of no interest.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Except that this quote has been attributed to a number of people and there is no evidence Einstein ever said it. More here: Einstein on misattribution: 'I probably didn't say that.' - Becker's Online JournalExcellent quote
I like the last line:" It’s not surprising that it has been attributed to Einstein, since everything but the Book of Genesis has been attributed to him at some point."
Audie
Veteran Member
Excellent quote
No, it isnt.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
*cough* okay.....?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Thank you. I just read it here on RF. I mostly check quotes, not this time.
So I will take A.Einstein reference out [thanks for reminding me in time]
I still like the quote a lot and seems valuable to me especially in the context of this post
[going against your own conscience and expecting it to feel good].
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