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Featured Islam: What Muslims teach children in Dutch schools

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by stvdv, Sep 14, 2019.

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  1. 1: No worries, it will blow over (This is Islamophobia)

  2. 2: I do worry, "Muslims who teach killing is okay" won't just blow over

  3. 3: Koran contains violent verses

  4. 4: Violent verses in Koran are dangerous in the West

  5. 5: Responsibility of highest Imam to do something now

  6. 6: Act now or Islamophobia becomes reality

  7. 7: I do not believe this happened; it's a hoax

  8. 8: I believe Allah does want Muslims to teach this

  9. 9: I believe Allah does NOT want Muslims to teach this

  10. 10: I believe Muslims should be free to teach this

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  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I don’t agree with this as it would keep out liberal and progressive Muslims who are natural allies in the fight against extremists.

    Instead I propose a simple survey to be asked of all immigrants consisting of three questions.

    1. Do you believe in temporal punishments for apostasy?
    2. Do you believe in temporal punishments for blasphemy?
    3. Do you believe in violence against people who don’t follow your religion/ideology?

    An answer of yes to any of these 3 questions should be sufficient to deny immigration and that way radicals of all groups could be rooted out without discrimination against any 1 particular group.
     
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  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    So you take the position that 'one man's death is a tragedy. Three thousand men's deaths are a statistic.' Very cool, bro.
     
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  3. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    1)
    You quoted part of my short conversation with @Wandering Monk , that's why your reply-quote of my full reply takes what I meant out of context

    You should at least have included my full reply, or even better added @Wandering Monk his reply to give exact and clear understanding why I said what I said.

    Hence I did that

    2) I fully agree. You just perfectly worded (I have asked similar direct questions but usual got evasive answers from Muslims, hence my new approach) what @Wandering Monk and @stvdv quotes, when put together, mean IMO. I left it for the reader to phrase it, like you did.

    Football analogy:
    a) stvdv created the game starting the OP
    b) Monk created the gameplay giving the facts (much more than little want to kill for certain offences)
    c) stvdv took the ball (IF they believe this way, then no goal, no entry in our country; making very clear how to play fair). stvdv saw someone standing free and passed the ball
    d) You took your best shot, wording the ELSE conditions of my IF conditions about the facts, started by monk

    You still disagree?
     
    #83 stvdv, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  4. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    I don't think that's fair. Or else, they should throw all those out who reply positive to any of those. So the test should be given to all people, even those already living there. Make it your paradise.
     
  5. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi stvdv,

    Independent investigation of truth is required here. We are given our own minds to think for ourselves and see with our own eyes not blindly follow others.

    What is being taught here is not Islam and there is not a single verse in the Quran that supports this ideology. The Quran teaches to accept other religions and that there is no compulsion to join religion and that we should go our way and let others go their way. Murder is also forbidden.

    There is no authoritative source in Islam that supports this kind of ideology. I can back that up with authorised authentic quotes if required.

    They likely get it from fabricated Hadiths that contradict the Quran and the Quran itself states that it is the only authority and the Mother Book of Islam and for all Muslims to turn to not Mullas or Hadiths.

    But religious leaders, fanatics, extremists and those with political ambitions preach hatred and prejudice without being questioned. Anyone who has studied the Quran and Islam knows these ideologies are directly opposed to what the Quran teaches.

    We’ve been spoon fed for so long we believe everything we are told without questioning or researching truth for ourselves. We can be very easily fooled and deceived when we blindly follow others.
     
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  6. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It would be impractical to do anything about those who are already here. Besides they are a minority that can be handled by education and where they break the law imprisonment.

    Dealing with immigration is simply necessary to stop them growing faster than they can be re-educated to rid them of fanatical brainwashing.

    It is not about creating a utopia it’s about maintaining safe spaces for dissent to allow the best ideas to be selected by society without compulsion silencing those ideas from being put forward.
     
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  7. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    That is utopia. You really think religious extremism is the greatest threat to society? I'd say beer is greater.
     
  8. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Global warming is probably the greatest threat, but religious extremism comes in well ahead of beer.

    Beer results in accidents which kill people, I think it a higher priority to eliminate intentionally killing people.

    But suppose for the sake of argument that beer kills more people than extremism. That is not a good argument for not getting rid of extremism, since we could rid the world of beer and extremism.

    That being said, there are societies such as in the west that have relatively little extremism, but no society has ever rid itself of alcohol. In other words, prohibition of alcohol is proven not to work anywhere in the world, whereas western society proves prohibition of extremism is largely effective, more especially when combined with effective gun control laws.
     
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  9. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Good point. For me search for truth is a personal quest. No need to tell others nor to impose on others (or be imposed by others)

    Hence this thread about the indoctrination and brainwashing which has been done in 50 of the 52 Muslim schools mentioned in the OP
     
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  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Wonderful reply. When people independently search for truth they cannot be manipulated and brainwashed. We do not have Imams or clergy or priests so each person must use his own eyes and mind which I love so much.

    When I search something with my own mind and discover a truth a wonderful sensation flows through my being like I made a major discovery. The feeling is so uplifting to find truth using one’s own mind and brings joy and happiness.

    I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
     
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  11. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I wish you all the best with your book you are going to publish

    Dismantle the system of misguidance in Islam is a big mission. But a good one. Very much needed now.
     
  12. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    This I also read in Bahaullah's Book and felt good to me

    I know that feeling.

    When reading verses in Koran, it's sometimes not easy to understand.
    Muslims advised me on RF, I should read commentaries from scholars to know the real meaning
    What is the fun in that? And what if the scholars have it wrong? Now in Holland they are exposed.

    Finding out what the scholars have been teaching young Muslims in Holland I am glad I followed my own feeling and intuition and conscience.

    And I always find the answer. Sometimes God gives me a hand; this I don't mind at all:).
    So I guess I enjoy it as much as you do
     
    #92 stvdv, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    No, it's my position that lynching 3000 people individually is JUST AS TRAGIC as killing 3000 people all at once in a plane crash. I find it rather disturbing that you apparently don't agree.
     
  14. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    I DO agree, but I am not gonna play 'whatabout' with you because the topic is ISLAM.
     
  15. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    And I'm just pointing out that the problem isn't Islam it's ANY radical religious sect. So glad that you agree.
     
  16. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    #96 Wandering Monk, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    News sources? do you think all news sources are impartial nowadays. Some are serving hidden agenda my dear?
     
  18. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    Don`t judge a nation with the very meager worst people in it. Why some are blaming Islam for actions committed by 0.000001% extremists under delusions. Extremists are found in all cults and religions. Quran and Prophet of Islam set general guidelines concerning every single aspect of a Muslim life, fair people need to judge Islam by this curriculum not by actions of outliers individuals.
     
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  19. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Find me a list of the number of people who have been lynched bombed or burned over the past 200 years in the name of white supremacy and maybe we COULD do a comparison. Hmm... seems like just those slaughtered by Nazi's during WWII in the name of white supremacy puts the number FAR greater than the victims of Islamic attacks.
     
  20. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that. I do not trust news sources. I only trust my own personal experiences.

    I went to a mosque nearby. And a friend of mine too. He converted to Islam. And now he tells exactly the same lines that were shown in the news. Dutch CIA made a recording what these Islamists were teaching the children. And exactly those things I have been hearing from my friend also the past few month. So, I am pretty sure that this time it is exactly what the news says it is

    I see a difference in "critique of Religion" and "critique of Actions" (any Actions, done in name of Religion or not)

    Many people don't see this difference clear. I see the difference very clearly

    In this thread I only talk about the bad Actions of these Islamists teaching Muslim children to hate Holland and Dutch people instead of "Love other religions"
     
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