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Featured Islam: What Muslims teach children in Dutch schools

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by stvdv, Sep 14, 2019.

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  1. 1: No worries, it will blow over (This is Islamophobia)

  2. 2: I do worry, "Muslims who teach killing is okay" won't just blow over

  3. 3: Koran contains violent verses

  4. 4: Violent verses in Koran are dangerous in the West

  5. 5: Responsibility of highest Imam to do something now

  6. 6: Act now or Islamophobia becomes reality

  7. 7: I do not believe this happened; it's a hoax

  8. 8: I believe Allah does want Muslims to teach this

  9. 9: I believe Allah does NOT want Muslims to teach this

  10. 10: I believe Muslims should be free to teach this

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  1. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, so now you are whatabouting by introducing the actions of a nation when here I thought we were talking about radical Islamist terror organizations.
     
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  2. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Wanna do a body count comparison?

    Hmm... you're the one who wanted to do a comparison between atrocities committed by Islamic extremists and white supremacists. Try and keep up.
     
  3. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Although I am currently chairman of my cities interfaith council and the Muslim community here hasn't caused any problems I have heard some disturbing reports such as the local Imam having close associations with Wahhabism.

    A Baha'i friend of mine from Egypt who lived locally generally kept his Baha'i affiliation low key. One day some Muslims came knocking encouraging to join a Jihadist movement.

    Although I have a friendly association with Muslims, I don't feel particularly close to any Muslims. I have a sense that many Muslims generally like to keep within their own communities.

    Unfortunately, these types of problems become fuel for the fire of the ultra right groups. I think we need to work hard to assist Muslims in our community to become fully integrated into our communities while being vigilant against extremism.

    This isn't an easy problem that's going away in a hurry. In fact its likely to get worse....
     
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I agree with this
    Actually it’s closer to 31% on a global scale. But if you have some scientific paper backing your assertion of “0.000001%” then please do share it.
    Agreed
     
  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    That is exactly what Dutch government was hoping.

    Alas, now they discovered that these Islamists were teaching exactly the opposite to the Muslim schools.

    Lucky Dutch AIVD (CIA) found out. Took a while to get proof, but I have seen and heard audio recordings of these "Muslim" teachers promoting hate towards everything non-Muslim (dutch 20min: to download and maybe google translate or have a dutch Bahai listen). Below link is 20min. I wrote out a few things with exact timings. Remember, they are teaching this to 6+ year old kids who should be prepared to make a positive contribution to society.

    In de Koranschool leren kinderen dat Nederland niet hun land is

    To children from 6+ years teaching them:
    00:30=Other believers deserve death
    00:45=No God but Allah (in Holland)
    07:45=Polytheist worst=live barbeque hell
    09:30=kill by Sword if belief in witchcraft
    10:20=Christmas worst sin, better congratulate someone who killed another. Would you celebrate kill day of your mother
    11:45=Don't love Atheist, you don't love murderers, do you? Duty of Muslims to feel disgust for Atheist (also if family), but you should not kill them
    14:30=Woman must obey man, need permission leave house. Sex must unless sick or period
    15:00=5 of 10 Muslim organisation tell Muslim kids to be ready to leave Holland; not your country. Duty for every Muslim to leave Holland and go live in Muslim country
    16:20=Danger if brainwashed thus, that IS easy gets to them to fight in Middle East

    So, what is the use to allow Muslims in Holland if this is what Muslim schools 96% teach them (hate non Muslims and sabotage our culture? I love Putin, he saw this straight away and dealt perfectly with it)

    If they think like this then I rather have them out the sooner the better. Not my idea, it's what these Muslims created themselves !!!

    Good lesson for Christians to think twice before claiming "Jesus is only way, others go to Hell" you just created this karma that now comes back. These Muslims do similar what Christians did for ages.
     
    #105 stvdv, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I am curious what Muslims in Middle East countries do, if they find out that Christians teach in their School that belief in Muhammad is the worst of sins. And celebrate and go to Mekka is very big sin too. Exactly this, but then about Jesus the Muslims do in the West.

    Maybe a Muslim can tell us that
     
  7. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Do you have a reference for the 31% figure Daniel?
     
  8. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Although I wouldn’t phrase it that way you have a point. Alcohol is linked to a significant proportion of motor vehicle accidents, fatal accidents, criminal behaviour including homicide and domestic violence, mental health as well as a multitude of physical health problems.
     
  9. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Isn't that a sin? I have heard it from many Christians. Unless you mean specifically the worst of sins. Christianity isn't concentrated on condemning Islam even if some Christians are.
     
  10. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Russia may not be everyone’s ideal of nationhood.

    Let’s consider some facts.

    The population of your country was about 17.1 million January 2017 and the percentage of Muslims 4.9%

    Islam is a relatively new religion in the Netherlands, as per most recent (CBS) statistics 4.9% of the Dutch population were Muslims in 2015.

    The majority of Muslims in the Netherlands belong to Sunni denomination, with a sizeable Shia minority. Muslim numbers began to rise after the 1970s as the result of immigration
    .

    Religion in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

    So you have about 838,000 Muslims in Holland.

    In regards Islamic terrorism in Holland:

    List of terrorist incidents in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

    Are there other Islamic terrorist attacks? I think overall the numbers of people that have been killed from Islamic terrorist attacks in Holland to date is very low. If you were to compare that to alcohol related deaths, suicides, homicides or motor vehicle accidents the number is tiny.

    That isn’t to say there shouldn’t be a response to Islamic extremism being taught in schools. There should.

    The other useful statistics would be to calculate the percentage of Muslims being taught in Muslim schools.

    Just a few thoughts to gauge the scale of the problem.
     
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  12. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Dutch still get it wrong on Muslims, immigration numbers - DutchNews.nl

    This article claims that Dutch got their numbers still wrong
    And that people from New Zealand are known tot have the numbers right:D
    It seems to me this article is quite right:D, you got the numbers quite well


    That is true. Though I met 2 Russians traveling Europe and coming to stay with us; they were very enthusiastic about Putin. I was surprised, here in Holland it was mostly not very positive about Putin. But they said that Putin took good care of jobs and education and all get some government money when no job (but not sure how Russia is when it comes to numbers either; and I have not checked these numbers). Comparing Putin and Trump, Putin seems more stable to me, and better control over what he speaks out in public.

    Seems quite right to me

    After WW2 we have been blessed I think.
    Before WW2 started the world (including Holland) did not take Adolph Hitler and his fundamentalism serious enough
    My grandfather fought in WW2 and he always warned us ... beware of extremism, they are very dangerous
    So IMO it's very wise of Holland to take this issue in Muslims schools very serious. Better safe than sorry, like in WW2

    I am very glad I do not live in USA with many people owning a gun, and so much violence
    Our AIVD (Dutch CIA) must have like holiday here, so little terrorism.

    Good the AIVD took this Muslim teaching problem very serious. Terrorism can spread fast when schools are abused.

    They said 50 out of the 52 schools were teaching this. With thousands of students. From 800.000 muslims that might not seem much. But that is how Hitler started also. If you teach one, he can become a teacher etc.

    But the "good" thing maybe is, that they teach to the teen Muslims, that Holland is not their country, and they should all go to Muslim countries. So any problems would then leave Holland. But to me it seems a waste of energy. If they really feel so bad about our culture, it's much better to act like Putin did "If you do not like our culture, then we are very happy to escort you out to any Muslim culture country of your choice.

    Seems to me also not healthy to teach such hate things to young children.

    Even on RF I read yesterday the below line written by someone who does not reveal his religion. Seeing his replies he seems a Muslim or Muslim apologist.

    Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion

    Luckily another Muslim said something like: Islam does not impose religion on others. Religion is free.

    I think fanatism (my way is the highway for all) is the cause of much of the violence in the world.
    Hitler did it, Christians and Muslims do it. Humans need to stop this if they want Peace in the world
    Obvious to me, but still not to many others
     
    #112 stvdv, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  13. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    I sorry, I have never understood what you're saying when you do this. I don't now either.
     
  14. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thank you. I got that number totally wrong

    I wrote 10% in the OP, thanks for correcting
     
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  15. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Sure, in the YouTube clip in post 1 at <a href="Attacking Ideas: My Chaning Views of Isalm">Attacking Ideas: My Chaning Views of Isalm</a> the author of the YouTube clip averages the statistics for Muslims who believe in death for apostates across 37 Muslim countries.

    I believe the study he quotes is here Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

    If you think the author got the average wrong I’m happy for you to show me the math and come up with a more correct figure, but garantee it won’t be anywhere near 0.0000001%
     
    #116 danieldemol, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  17. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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  18. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    I assure you you this is not true at all regarding Sunni Islam. If Such mosques exists, local authorities can take actions. For example Fanatic ISIS targets Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I believe you. They should take actions.

    But it's politics also, I read in news today. Ties with Middle East, don't want to make them too angry (Dutch don't want another oil crisis; no oil is problem, people got used to their comfortable life)

    We depend on oil from Middle East and agreed in 1975 Strassbourg Resolution to allow spreading Islam in exchange for getting oil. Politics is not always clean and fair.

    I believe you. I think that maybe 90% or more will be Muslims suffering from ISIS; but that's just guessing.
     
  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Already done, see post #116
     
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