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Featured Islam: What Muslims teach children in Dutch schools

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by stvdv, Sep 14, 2019.

?
  1. 1: No worries, it will blow over (This is Islamophobia)

  2. 2: I do worry, "Muslims who teach killing is okay" won't just blow over

  3. 3: Koran contains violent verses

  4. 4: Violent verses in Koran are dangerous in the West

  5. 5: Responsibility of highest Imam to do something now

  6. 6: Act now or Islamophobia becomes reality

  7. 7: I do not believe this happened; it's a hoax

  8. 8: I believe Allah does want Muslims to teach this

  9. 9: I believe Allah does NOT want Muslims to teach this

  10. 10: I believe Muslims should be free to teach this

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Research by NRC handelsblad and Nieuwsuur:
    Thousands of children in the Netherlands go to a Salafi school in addition to their regular school. At different mosque schools, teachers teach that Muslim youth should not become friends with Jews or Christians. This is the conclusion of a study by Nieuwsuur and NRC Handelsblad. They also learn that people with a different religion or belief deserve the death penalty.

    Thousands of children in the Netherlands follow Islamic lessons outside of regular education. In this informal Islam education, Salafism, a fundamentalist movement, is becoming increasingly dominant.

    Nieuwsuur and NRC discovered that there are already at least 50 schools with strong Salafi influences. They investigated what children are taught at those schools. In various textbooks, the punishment of non-believers or other believers is promoted. In a book that the mosque recommends for 15 year olds there is a question about the assessment of someone who denies 1 of the mentioned Islamic columns. The book's answer is "he must be killed because he is an unbeliever."

    Children learn to dislike people with a different belief or belief. An important starting lesson is that their clothing may not resemble the clothing of non-Muslims. In this exercise, children must write "who imitates a people belongs to them".

    From the age of 15/16 young people learn in different places in the Netherlands that they should not become friends with others. Like with Jews or with Christians. They are not even allowed to let non-Muslims eat their food. And they shouldn't congratulate them on Christmas, that's how we hear in this lesson. This is even a greater sin with Allah, and heavier than congratulating someone who drinks alcohol, commits murder ... this is even worse.

    NRC=Dutch Most trusted newspaper & NOS.nl=Dutch best news site ( I trust not much, I do trust these)
    'NOS en NRC zijn betrouwbaar, Geenstijl en Telegraaf niet' - Joop


    Disclaimer:
    1) Below is not my opinion. Just Islamic Dutch facts. If you don't like real facts on Islam then stop reading
    2) This is not to bash Islam. It is to point out what certain Muslims teach in name of Islam in the Netherlands
    3) This is in General Debate and not in Islam Debate, because it's about Islam in Western World
    4) Was on the Dutch news 4 days ago. I think this is just what it is, sadly (I double checked on hoax)

    Fact: In Dutch Muslim schools they have been teaching Muslim children below things about Islam:
    1) People with a different religion or belief deserve the death penalty.
    2) Someone who denies 1 of the mentioned Islamic Pillars ... "he must be killed because he is an unbeliever."

    This is not incidental. Over 50 schools, thousands of Muslim children were exposed to this Jihad like teaching

    Those were just 2 of the many things that were taught. But they did worry me quite a bit
    Holland nowadays has ca. 10% Muslims. If they teach Muslim kids this, there will be many soon
    I am curious what experiences other countries have with what Muslims teach their children in schools
    (Recently it hit the national news that fundamentalist Islam was funding mosques in the Netherlands)
    (A few years ago I saw articles about this in Scandinavia too, but I didn't know if it was trustworthy)

    Problems will not be solved unless we face the dark reality within religions (now Islam):
    Unless people finally realize and understand and admit the problems of Islam and Koran
    Unless people finally realize and understand and admit that Islamophobia is a reality, not just a fear

    About the poll:
    In the poll you can check any/all of the 10 options (you can change anytime)
    Because many people easily scream Islamophobia, I am curious what they scream now
    If you think this is part of Islamophobia you can select 1: (the whole world can see your vote;))

    Note:
    I googled a little more and found some additional links

    First link is the original Dutch link AND Second link(GoogleEnglishTranslated.....)
    Last link is an Imam who admits it's all true about Salafist Islam terrorizing Mosques and Holland
    (Muslims are threatened if they don't teach what Salafist Islamists want them to teach)
    Grote zorgen Tweede Kamer na onderzoek salafistische moskeescholen
    Google Translate Major concerns Parliament after investigation Salafist mosque schools

    Tumult in de moslimgemeenschap na onderzoek salafistische scholen
    Google Translate Tumult in the Muslim community after research Salafist schools

    Salafistische scholen leren kinderen zich af te keren van Nederland
    Google Translate Salafist schools teach children to turn away from the Netherlands

    Imams: ‘Zo onderwijs je de islam niet’
    Google Translate Imams: "This is not how you teach Islam"


    When Imam Elhoussaine Essabir hears that salafists in several places in the Netherlands are calling on young people to leave here, it will be too much for him. He keeps silent staring at the floor of the classroom in the Alkmaar mosque.

    He thought of his children, the imam later explains why he became emotional. How should they grow up in a society where on the one hand politicians say that Islam does not fit here, and on the other hand radical Salafists express exactly the same thing: we do not belong here.

    "Where should we go then," says Essabir. "To Saudi Arabia, where they saw people in pieces at an embassy?" No, says the imam. "Our rights are better guaranteed in the Netherlands than in Islamic countries."

    Not only politicians and the intelligence service are concerned about Salafist education. In the Islamic community, the lessons are at least as controversial. The tensions within families, schools and mosques that cause this do not often come out. You don't throw the dirty laundry on the street, so the opinion is certainly not in a country where Islam is already under attack. Moreover, there is fear among clergymen about intimidation by Salafists, says Saïd Bouharrou of the Council of Moroccan Mosques in the Netherlands (RMMN), to which 70 Islamic organizations are members. "If someone criticizes Salafist ideology, a whole campaign against such a person is set up. Then they get threats, they are labeled apostates or mosque boards are put under pressure to keep them out of the mosque. ”

    A sheik, an imam and a teacher nevertheless want to tell how they view salafist teaching methods. "To show that this is not Islam," says Elhoussaine Essabir, 44, imam of the Bilalm Mosque in Alkmaar. He was educated in Morocco and completed an additional study program at the Free University this year.

    Said el Mokadmi is a distinguished sheik for many Moroccan-Dutch Muslims. He has a theological institute in Lochem and preaches in mosques throughout the Netherlands. When he sees the lesson examples that NRC and Nieuwsuur collected, he is startled. "This is not possible. It is not Islamic, not pedagogical - it is irresponsible, "he says about the booklets in which young children are taught enemy images about unbelievers and others.

    Terms like "idolaters" and "unbelievers" appear in the sacred texts, El Mokadmi acknowledges, but according to him, are misinterpreted by Salafists. "You should not teach this way, and certainly not to children. If you explain it this way you are going to isolate children, get them out of society. "

    "The moment my child gets this kind of lessons, I immediately get him out of school," says Mohammed Hessani about the corporal punishment the children learn. As a volunteer, he teaches Koran to children in the Al-Muslim mosque in Nijmegen. "I do not understand that you are giving this to a child here in the Netherlands. We have a Dutch legal system here that gives judgment and punishments. ”

    How do religious teachers approach it themselves?

    "Very simple," says El Mokadmi. „Allah said: you believe, I believe. And we respect each other ”. Friends are with unbelievers, coming to each other's birthday: El Mokadmi sees no problem in it. "I don't understand why these people are always talking about punishments, punishments. In the sacred texts the punishments are minimal, the rest is joy. Why don't they talk about that? Talk to the children about rewards, about goodness. There is enough to tell! ”

    This is not possible. It is not Islamic, not educational - it is irresponsible

    Said el Mokadmi, imam

    You have to focus on yourself instead of the other, Hessani says. "How am I an exemplary Muslim, how can I mean something to society? Education must be about that. Not about how bad other people are and that you can't handle that. ”

    "Child abuse," Imam Essabir even calls it. He scatters with koran texts that, according to him, indicate how mercifully the prophet dealt with dissenters. He tries to spread that message in Alkmaar. “For example, Shiites also come here to pray. That's fine. I try to search for common values, not for differences ”.

    But he also sees that young people are sensitive to the Salafi explanation. "We ourselves are guilty of that," says the imam. "We came here as guest workers. Our children went looking for their faith. Who could they go to? Their parents don't have much knowledge. The imam in the mosque only speaks Arabic, they cannot even understand it. Saudi Arabia has responded very well to this by translating books with their ideology and marketing them for free. If a young person is now looking for something about his faith, almost all Dutch-language books are from the Salafist movement. ”

    In those books the emphasis is on labeling everything and everyone who deviates from the doctrine as unbelieving. Salafists refuse to interpret sacred texts. "They don't look at how law schools explain those texts in a new context. They make their own Islam, "says Said el Mokadmi. "With the icing on the cake that you have to emigrate. Then you know where that leads to? Only to misery: radicalization and people traveling to Syria. "

    El Mokadmi has one advice for salafists who teach young people that they must leave here. "If they really think so, they must go themselves. Then we will be rid of them. "
     
    #1 stvdv, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  2. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Can it be that schools that teach this dont know the real Islam and teaching false Islam to the kids. You guys keep advocatin Islam as evil. May it be that it is People who are evil and use Islam as a shield to do evil deeds?
     
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  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Who made up the test?
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    My Master, Sai Baba holds Islam in high esteem, always claimed "Islam is the Religion of Peace". But also claimed that He came to give major updates because not all Religions are pure anymore. Furthermore He stated that Islam will be the last that will come to Him (His Teachings). By the way Sai Baba is not teaching a new Religion. All can stick to their own (non)Religion. He always said "I do not want you to change Religion. You come to me, and I will help you become better and more loving in your own (non) Religion".

    So, indeed I agree with you, that Islam is the Religion of Peace.
    Only certain Muslims create a very bad name for Islam in this way

    And it is the highest time that all Imams get their act together
    Or Islam will be bashed for ever, because what they did in Holland is too bad for words
    And if done in Holland I am quite sure it is done all over the world
     
    #4 stvdv, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Islam is just like other religions reflects people understanding or not understanding (1 Cor 2) of the Higher wishes.
     
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  6. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I can assure you (99% sure using common sense only, no proof) it were not Dutch people who made up the test (unless they had a death wish)

    As I informed you in the OP
    (Recently it hit the national news that fundamentalist Islam was funding mosques in the Netherlands)
    So maybe it was some "dirty" Imam making sure this material needed to be taught (just speculation)

    More important question IMO:
    How come if "Islam is Religion of Peace"
    That there are Muslims teaching in Dutch schools "Unbelievers deserve the death penalty"
     
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  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Dive deeply into Kalergi Plan and the Great Replacement.
     
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Real Islam?

    No offense, there is no "real" Islam. Just a bunch of folks going about with different ideas what Islam is.

    Some of these ideas, ok cool. No personal conflicts. Other ideas need to be criticized. There is no authority to say what Islam is or isn't. Just folks who develop their own concepts and run with it.

    Fairly, I suppose we can't criticize the religion. Just the individual ideas people claim about a religion.
     
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  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Each religion is very, very different. All religions are not the same. People are mostly the same, not religions. Religions are different. There can be overlaps, just like dogs and some fish both have four limbs and one head. An oyster sort of has a tongue. A bird has something like fingers.
     
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  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The International School in Jakarta is at least 80-100 years old.. co-ed and founded by the Dutch. Can't imagine them teach crap.
     
  11. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Kalergi did pop up when I googled. One thing I found from him (below) did make sense to me. I believe in action and reaction. So if you anger someone, it's very likely they will hit you back or even kill you. Belittling someone hurts quite a bit, so that's why the below does make sense.
    Another thing popping up is that EU wants to invite 60 million Africans into Europe
    Maybe this is what you are referring to iwth Kalergi Plan and the Great Replacement ??
    Lees en Huiver EU wil 60 miljoen migranten voor 2050 – GeleHesjes-Nederland.nl
    (First part is Dutch, then there is a small English summary.)

    But all of this is far from what the OP is about.
     
  12. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't advocate Islam is evil, see my OP (as in above quote).
    I do question certain bad behavior done in the name of Islam
    This is something completely different than "advocating Islam as evil"
     
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  13. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree with this.
    For me life is about "how we act". Does a human act "wrong" (according to country Laws) then holding them responsible is normal.
    And when they happen to be Muslims, then they should be hold accountable also.

    Country Laws trump Religious Laws; in the Netherlands at least
    Is that the same in your country?
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I do remember I read a little while back that Indonesia has the highest amount of Muslims in the world
    So my guess is that the Dutch have ZERO influence over there.
    100 years ago it was like 99% Christians in Holland, so probably they hoped to convert them all into Christian belief (some might call that crap though)

    I do believe in karma. So what the Dutch did in Indonesia many decades ago, probably still needs to be paid back karmic wise (one way or another)
     
  15. Link

    Link Active Member

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    This is a reality I am trying to deal with and am working hard to make Muslims realize the evils we teach and attribute to God what we don't know.
     
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  16. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    this us about mixing races, creating a new human being , not white not colired, and that it what is gappening, here, in the USA , and Europe. antisemitism is a cover up, this way it is is easier to hide. Analyse what you see in Europe, be surprise if you find a white person anywhere 100 years from now. Look at UK Royals as token.
     
  17. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    "real Iskam" kind of the same as "real Christianity" - taken over by Archons to control Earth's population.
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That is for sure IMO, as I believe Islam is good, only humans act bad sometimes.

    Some might even say it can be CIA trying to discredit Islam. I do not believe in such theories, but can't prove it of course.
    (that is what some people claim about 9/11 also; coincidentally the link I found was also 9/11)

    Below is a hidden camera (from Danmark): In a Muslim class where an Imam is making very strong statements: who/why kill according to Koran

    Dutch undertitles, but english translated (and in the end in Dutch translated; which I put in english below)
    Imam asks kids "should a women committing adultery be stoned or whipped?"
    Kids want her whipped, but Imam wants her killed. Even if unmarried she must die.
    Only a virgin who commits adultery will be whipped he said.


    Coincidentally it seems that they were asked similar questions in class. So it might be that a very evil Islamic sect tries to infiltrate in Europe teaching young Muslim kids Jihad verses. ca. 1 month ago is was in the Dutch newspapers that this is indeed happening in the Netherlands.

    And another fact. ca. 25 years ago in a bus, a Muslim woman walks up to me and tells me something like:
    "You Dutch are weak, in 25 years Holland is ours"

    And another fact: A Dutch man converted into Islam. And now he is talking quite radical, like all women are *****es and it's needed that the man stays on top, otherwise she will sleep around with others, because women can't be trusted. And many more things he said sounded quite disturbing. When I send him links about disturbing news on Muslims in Holland, he does not reply, and ignores me for month. Like in the youtube (do not befriend non-Muslims). This is what he learned in the Mosque in Holland. Maybe is this one of the mosques in the youtube.

    And my Master told me that I was going to marry to a Muslima. Can you believe that. Sai Baba is horrible. I mean I do like Muslimas (except the above), but I don't want to marry.

    The over 50 schools teaching thousands of Muslim kids bad stuff is very disturbing and calls for action.
    The two other spoilers are just single experiences
    But it feels to me, that there is serious Muslim trouble in Holland
    (50 schools with thousands of Muslims is a lot in our very small country)

    First it was Catholic Priests, now it's Islamic Imams that need to be double checked
    As some have said, Islam is okay, it's just the humans that mess up
    So I guess this is indeed the problem here. No Islamophobia anymore
     
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  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I value your contribution very much.
    It must be hard to see your fellow Muslim brothers do things you disapprove off.

    If people stop hiding behind Islamophobia and start facing the reality it can be solved (I hope)

    I believe there is a lot of fear in Muslims also. Because many blindly trust Imams, and dare not think for themselves (when it's against Imam). Of course they dare to think, but it should not be "outside the Imam-box of thinking" (of course in private they can think, but speak out loud is a different story).

    You can correct me, if my feeling is wrong. It is just my guess, but you know what is true, as you are Muslim, and I am not.
     
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  20. Link

    Link Active Member

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    I'm doing my best to dismantle the system of misguidance we inherited generation to generation, and the religion is hidden now, it's foundations gone, it's clear proofs no longer known, despite there being a way, most people can't find this way even if they try their best.

    I believe in Quran and hadiths both, but not how they are approached today or have been approached over all. We went to the houses through the back doors and we are misguided and overcome by Satan and his forces.

    The way of authenticating hadiths makes humans authority over God's guidance which is a paradox. The way we follow religion has made misguidance inevitable.

    A professor is helping me publish my book, he says it has potential to be published, next meeting with him is Monday.
     
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