Is Scientology really that bad?

[Revoltingest]

Indeed.

I think you missed my point. It is the extrapolation to "religion" from what are basically self-afflicted defects of proselistit monotheism that I object to.

I know I've been missing something in your post.
So I went with responding to the inference I wanted.

Could you be clearer?

 

[LuisDantas]

I know I've been missing something in your post.
So I went with responding to the inference I wanted.

Could you be clearer?

Sure.

You post #58 lumps together lots of doctrines and movements that claim to be "religions".

I maintain that Islaam is not a religion at all, mainly because it all but forces itself to commit the attrocities that you described. And Christianity is also considerably guilty of the same, for many of the same reasons, although it has allowed it self to get somewhat better.

Both doctrines are very much unlike religion in a general sense. Mainly because they are nearly the only proselist monotheism in existence. Most doctrines avoid such a dangerous trap.

I wish more people realized that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure.

You post #58 lumps together lots of doctrines and movements that claim to be "religions".

From post #58....
"....Xianity, Islam, Catholocism, Hinduism..."
They only "claim" to be religions....you're saying they aren't?

I maintain that Islaam is not a religion at all, mainly because it all but forces itself to commit the attrocities that you described. And Christianity is also considerably guilty of the same, for many of the same reasons, although it has allowed it self to get somewhat better.

Both doctrines are very much unlike religion in a general sense. Mainly because they are nearly the only proselist monotheism in existence. Most doctrines avoid such a dangerous trap.

I wish more people realized that.

It sounds like the no-true-Scotsman fallacy, ie, that
any religion which perpetrates evil isn't a religion.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Scientology is neither a science nor theology. it is a business.
however people are free to believe what they like and be relieved of as much money as they care to hand over in the process.
In that respect its avarice is little different to some Super Churches.
It is probably not Dangerous in that its appeal is mostly to wealthy and easily persuaded.

And as business religions go, has a very small membership on a world wide basis.
and has at least as proportionate a number of backsliders, as any other such organisation or religion.
Truth, reasonableness, nor goodwill, nor any other favourable attributes, are necessary to set up such a religious origination in the USA.

 

[Revoltingest]

Scientology is neither a science nor theology. it is a business.
however people are free to believe what they like and be relieved of as much money as they care to hand over in the process.
In that respect its avarice is little different to some Super Churches.
It is probably not Dangerous in that its appeal is mostly to wealthy and easily persuaded.

And as business religions go, has a very small membership on a world wide basis.
and has at least as proportionate a number of backsliders, as any other such organisation or religion.
Truth, reasonableness, nor goodwill, nor any other favourable attributes, are necessary to set up such a religious origination in the USA.

Does combining business with religion make it no longer a religion?

 

[Onyx]

I say tax them, along with other religious organizations that rake in the dough.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Does combining business with religion make it no longer a religion?

From my perspective it is only a business masquerading as a religion.

But it certainly has "believers"
But so do Ponzi schemes.

Both drain your money for no return.

 

[Revoltingest]

But it certainly has "believers"

That describes a religion.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That describes a religion.

My and many other churches certainly accept donations, however they are not a personal requirement in any way.
Fund raising is certainly a necessity for the churches to exist into the future.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Fair enough, but the fact is that other religions, if not Catholicism, do enforce a kind of tithing system. Contributions to the Church of Scientology are also voluntary. You pay only if you want research materials and courses.



The same way you would research any other NRM. Actually examine the text of the religion's scripture as well as unbiased sources such as government papers and academic studies. I myself have also read Scientology literature.



When will this pathetic conspiracy theory about Scientology die? I have spoken with actual Scientologists who are at high levels in the Church and/or know people who are at high levels, and some alien lord named Xenu does not form any part of their beliefs. Scientology has no origin story/creation myth in which some alien lizard named Xenu exploded people with a bunch of H bombs. The core beliefs of Scientology are out there for anyone to study in the published writings of LRH. Of course you can always fall back on the claim, "Oh, they're just forced by the church to lie about Xenu," but that is an unfalsifiable claim. You can claim Scientologists believe anything using that kind of "logic" which is precisely why critics of the church use "arguments" like this.



This is nothing more than a rumour. This quote originates from George Orwell and is falsely attributed to LRH. Hubbard's words differ markedly based on each source which attests to him saying this, the location and time where and when he said this also differ markedly in each account, and there are multiple affidavit which report that this was never said by Hubbard (1, 2, 3). Also, whether or not LRH said this is irrelevant. Whether he said this or not does not make Dianetics and Scientology true or false. The only thing this proves if it is true is that Hubbard was perhaps cynical/critical about religious leaders.

"Also, whether or not LRH said this is irrelevant."

Perhaps by a follower of the cult it is 'irrelevant', but for anyone who uses their rational brain and who has actually read the fantastical garbage contained within Dianetics it's VERY insightful. What a coincidence that this 'religion' made up by a bad sci-fi writer sounds like bad sci-fi. And how sad that there are people who will claim that a self-proclaimed fraud like Hubbard actually isn't. Just goes to show that some people are willing to believe anything.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps by a follower of the cult it is 'irrelevant', but for anyone who uses their rational brain and who has actually read the fantastical garbage contained within...

Insert the names of many other sacred texts after the ellipses, & it applies just as well.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

I have been researching it lately and can't unsee it as a criminal enterprise.

The "religion" side of it (like Xenu), isn't as bizarre as people make it out to be but it doesn't have any weight or substance to it. The "science" side of it, is pure pseudo-garbage, but makes for 'good' fiction.

The amount of money and power they have at their disposal, is outright scary and IMO the Church (Of Sc.) itself is the exact definition of a cult - Sea Org too

Looking into some of the wikileaks info too, gives me major Jonestown vibes

 

[Ben Dhyan]

^^ Hi RPSTOVAL, if you want to know the in and outs of Scientology, there is no better resource than ex-Scientologists.

Ex Scientologist Message Board

 

[wazithim]

Just been told on national news by a commander, how to change the setting on a hdtv via the motion flow setting to bypass operah & make a movie expreience less too realistic. For free!

 

[Spirit of Light]

To exist a church has to have some way to get money, and Scientology is unique among religions in that it is applied and requires technology and church staff to administer counselling, training, etc. Scientology is a pay for what you want system. When you want the stuff, you pay for it, and when you don't, you don't. and I personally think this is much better than being required to pay a flat tithe regardless of whether you're taking anything from the Church, as it is with some religions.

Spiritual teching should not be something we pay for. a little fee for being member yes, but not many thousands of dollar per person

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From my perspective it is only a business masquerading as a religion.

But it certainly has "believers"
But so do Ponzi schemes.

Both drain your money for no return.

"Religion" and "business" are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, Scientology has severe problems, but they're problems that are pretty common across the spectrum of religions.

Just this morning, a video came up on my Facebook feed of a Christian minister advising a cash-strapped, out-of-work parishoner to keep tithing.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

"Religion" and "business" are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, Scientology has severe problems, but they're problems that are pretty common across the spectrum of religions.

Just this morning, a video came up on my Facebook feed of a Christian minister advising a cash-strapped, out-of-work parishoner to keep tithing.

10% of nothing is nothing.

Scientology does not define God at all and is a free for all in that respect.
But is probably no more confused than other theologies.
However its science and tools are completely bogus.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

10% of nothing is nothing.

IIRC, she was told to keep tithing at the same rate as when she was working.

Scientology does not define God at all and is a free for all in that respect.
But is probably no more confused than other theologies.
However its science and tools are completely bogus.

I've yet to find a religion whose use of "science" wasn't bogus.

 

[Marcion]

If that is true I take no issue with it. They are "services" after all, and they cannot be carried out for free.

If it costs money, it is business, definitely not service.

 

[Vaderecta]

It gets quite a lot of criticism, especially recently, since Leah Remini has been talking about it lately and receiving a lot of attention for it.

Why do people not like Scientology? Is it really as bad as people make it out to be?

Its pretty bad.