Is prostitution wrong?

[johnhanks]

What God says is good and moral is because of his nature, it’s a part of him. God is good so what he tells us to do is good.

Even when he's telling Moses to kill babies?

It’s not just because he commands it, it is because it is who he is.

Tony Soprano's underlings would have said much the same.

 

[work in progress]

Let me begin by saying whether we like it or not, there is such a thing as absolute morality in the world. There are things that are wrong in all cases. The explanation as to why that is can be best explained by a divine creator and a moral giver, in my opinion.

I suppose a thread about prostitution is likely not the best place to go into every aspect of how to derive moral principles, but off the top I would ask for just one divine principle that is not challenged or contradicted in another part of the Bible. For example, even if we declare that killing is wrong, there are lots of verses exhorting the Israelites to kill their enemies -- including women and children...and take young virgin girls as concubines to have fun with later! That is not the morality preached in front of the pulpit today, but it's in there, and would be in step with the traditional morality that that most tribal societies had for millenia, that outsiders didn't count, and there was no reason to have any concern for their wellbeing.

A naturalistic big bang and evolution doesn’t explain absolute morality, it only explains morals that are good for a community. If something is wrong, whether or not it is good for the community than that would be absolute and would destroy relative morality.

The problem with absolute morality, is that a prohibition -- on this issue against prostitution -- has to be maintained even if it leads to more harm than good. If all of the prostitution carries on anyway on the blackmarket, and STD's increase, and the dangers to prostitutes themselves increase, then the prohibition still cannot be altered because the rule is not affected or altered depending on actual results.

I'm not saying that legalizing prostitution is the right thing to do, and there may be other solutions that are better than legalized brothels. And, the last few posts from legalization advocates haven't dealt with the underworld control of prostitution continues in Amsterdam and other locations where it is legal, as does the slave trade that puts women and girls taken from other countries and kept as prisoners inside those legal brothels. Maybe there are better solutions out there than the two extremes mentioned so far.

When it comes to Euthypros delimma, that can be easily explained by the nature of God. What God says is good and moral is because of his nature, it’s a part of him. God is good so what he tells us to do is good. It’s not just because he commands it, it is because it is who he is.

That would explain why divine commands that seem wrong, like that little practical joke God played on Abraham -- telling him to sacrifice his only son upon the altar, or the command to commit genocide by exterminating the Amalek tribe would be another one. Whatever God says is good because he says it's good, whether it seems that way to us.

 

[McBell]

...there is such a thing as absolute morality in the world.

name one.

 

[Man of Faith]

name one.

Serioursly? You can't think of anything that would be considered a moral abomination that anyone would call wrong?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

There is plenty of opposition to prostitution in many religions and society as a whole but is it really wrong?

I'm thinking about both sides of the profession - the customers and the workers.

Surely if you want to provide it then that is your choice and if you want to partake in the services offered then that is your choice also. Obviously free will and standard consent issues apply.

any views?

No I do not oppose prostitution as a concept.

 

[Sunstone]

In principle, I see nothing wrong with consensual prostitution. But there seems to be much wrong with prostitution as it is commonly practiced. For instance: Much of it is non-consensual. And much of it places prostitutes at great risk of violence.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

In principle, I see nothing wrong with consensual prostitution. But there seems to be much wrong with prostitution as it is commonly practiced. For instance: Much of it is non-consensual. And much of it places prostitutes at great risk of violence.

:yes:

 

[Watchmen]

Source please.

Well, you could start with wikipedia's discussion of prostitution in Nevada and, in particular, the section on the problems with legal brothels.

 

[Songbird]

In principle, I see nothing wrong with consensual prostitution. But there seems to be much wrong with prostitution as it is commonly practiced. For instance: Much of it is non-consensual. And much of it places prostitutes at great risk of violence.

I was going to say something along this note, and I kept deciding not to wade into it. A year ago or so I looked into the prostitution debate, and I can't find a modern system where legalized prostitution has worked well. Ideally, what consenting adults do is their business, but criminals and abusers seem to co-opt the sex trade just as much where it's legalized. I don't know how much work it would take to enforce a safe, consensual system - by the looks of it, far more work than is being done.

 

[Me Myself]

However this post shows me that you are attempting to put atheist and theists on the same footing in both not being able to have absolute morality.

This has nothing to do with atheism or theism. I am a panentheist (which would also make me a form of theist) and I don´t agree with "absolute" morality in the way yuo try to propose it.

Let me begin by saying whether we like it or not, there is such a thing as absolute morality in the world. There are things that are wrong in all cases.

And there is a book that tells us what is wrong in all cases because it was inspired by God.

This book is the Bible/Q´ran/Mahabharat/Tao Te Ching/Talmud/ Harry Potter

I just don´t get why people still try to use their heads and their hearts to figure out what is good and what is wrong when it is all clearly detailed in this only book that God left to mankind.

We must be mad

 

[Drolefille]

I was going to say something along this note, and I kept deciding not to wade into it. A year ago or so I looked into the prostitution debate, and I can't find a modern system where legalized prostitution has worked well. Ideally, what consenting adults do is their business, but criminals and abusers seem to co-opt the sex trade just as much where it's legalized. I don't know how much work it would take to enforce a safe, consensual system - by the looks of it, far more work than is being done.

This is where I am mostly. I lean towards legalization purely to make things somewhat safer, but I don't know that it's actually true or how the stats bear out on that.

 

[Songbird]

This is where I am mostly. I lean towards legalization purely to make things somewhat safer, but I don't know that it's actually true or how the stats bear out on that.

I don't either. I keep encountering such embedded misogyny in so many subcultures I'm losing hope in the idea of it being safer in a legal and regulated system.

 

[Sleeppy]

I don't either. I keep encountering such embedded misogyny in so many subcultures I'm losing hope in the idea of it being safer in a legal and regulated system.

People can only be trusted so far, if at all.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't either. I keep encountering such embedded misogyny in so many subcultures I'm losing hope in the idea of it being safer in a legal and regulated system.

I know that regardless I'd favor prosecution of johns over the prostitutes themselves. It is the demand that spurs the supply. I just wish there was a way to ensure that it really was the women in control of their own bodies.

 

[zenzero]

Friend nnmartin,

There is plenty of opposition to prostitution in many religions and society as a whole but is it really wrong?

This is from wiki:

In ancient India, there was a practice of having Nagarvadhus, "brides of the town". Famous examples include Amrapali, state courtesan and Buddhist disciple, described in Vaishali Ki Nagarvadhu by Acharya Chatursen and Vasantasena, a character in the classic Sanskrit story of Mricchakatika, written in the 2nd century BC by Sudraka. The Devadasis, who performed in temples, were described as "temple prostitutes".[citation needed] Kanhopatra is venerated as a saint in the Varkari sect of Hinduism, despite spending most of her life as a courtesan

Its only as one perceives. There is nothing as RIGHT or WRONG!

Love & rgds

 

[johnhanks]

Serioursly? You can't think of anything that would be considered a moral abomination that anyone would call wrong?

Most people, if pressed, would probably say infanticide.

But not the judaeochristian god, it seems - according to the record, he was a real enthusiast.

 

[nnmartin]

I know that regardless I'd favor prosecution of johns over the prostitutes themselves. It is the demand that spurs the supply.

That would be the same as prosecuting drug users over dealers.

 

[gnostic]

Poverty is often the case that drive people to prostitution. My real problem is with those who exploit desperate women, like their bosses or pimps; for they are the one who profit from the prostitutes' desperation.

 

[nnmartin]

The same as the manager of a factory or Mcdonalds restaurant.

 

[LeftishBritInPA]

No it is not necessarily wrong if they do it of their own free will. I view it as a profession as any other.

When you have billionaires who essentially stole thier money from the backs of hard-working people, it's hard to take an issue with a prostitute.

But what it comes down to is FREEDOM. If a woman was forced into it, then it is morally objectionable.