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Featured Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Yes, to quite a lot of those verses. Some could be read another way. But some are pretty straight ahead saying that, "The Logos was God", right off the bat. The others I could expound upon with some great detail if you wished.

    But I wish to preface all of that to say this is what the writers of the NT books had in mind, Paul particularly with his Cosmic Christ, were intending to say something metaphysical about the nature the Divine and the nature of Christ as Divine. Yes. That's pretty clear. My personal views on the nature of the Divine have additional perspectives to add.
     
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  2. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Yes, exactly. Even added some, as in the Comma Johanneum aka the Johannine Comma.

    Take care.
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thats not how its written any of the manuscripts you could find. This is an inference.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I doubt that particular discussion was speaking about translation. In fact, it definitely is not. When someone says "Alter", it is not just translation. Of course I dont agree with the 1700 year distance from the early text at all though.
     
  5. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    I believe John 1.1
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So do I, but I believe it is about God, not about Jesus.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    The Word refers to the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word was the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
     
  7. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Look at how much junk you just placed onto one verse . Its clear its referring to Jesus . The whole chapter is. Good grief man . You have been brain washed with this cult you are following . Wake up man .
     
  8. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    John 1 doesn't say this .
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    You will notice that they only tend to torturously rework the words of Jesus that allude to his divinity. His other words seem straight forward to them. People who are not a part of the sect can see what they are doing but inside the circle of confirmation bias is a whole different world.
     
  10. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Yes it is. The third clause of the first verse is in the anarthrous form, which points to the nature of the Logos. That nature was Theos, or Divine. "And the Logos was Divine", or "Divinity", in other words.

    But if that isn't enough, the entire context speaks of Logos as the preexisting creative agent of God, or God manifesting, creating, expressing, etc. The whole prologue of John is about what the Logos is, and how that Logos continued its eternal 'role' as manifestor by becoming flesh in verse 14.
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Theos en ho logos. So saying Logos was divine is correct. But what I responded to was "Logos was God" which is inference.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that does not account for this passage:
    Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given;
    and the government shall be upon4 his shoulder,
    and his name shall be called5
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
    there will be no end,
    on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
    to establish it and to uphold it
    with justice and with righteousness
    from this time forth and forevermore.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe God is one and does not have parts. Jesus is not part of God; He is God in the flesh.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that would be bad if the image were worshipped but I have never seen that in a protestant church.

    Rev 13:15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It is obvious to any rational person that these verses refer to God.

    John 1 King James Version (KJV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


    Jesus did not create anything, God created everything. Everyone knows that except a brainwashed Trinitarian Christian.

    18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    We all know that many people saw Jesus. Therefore deductive reasoning tells any rational person that Jesus cannot be God.
     
  16. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    18 No man hath seen God( The Father ) at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    John 1 does not say Jesus is God. A man cannot be God because a man is a man. :rolleyes:
    That is Logic 101 which completey eludes Trinitarian Christians.
     
  18. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    But John 1 says otherwise. I will believe the bible, not your religion .
     
  19. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    "It is obvious to any rational person that these verses refer to God."
    Yes thats my point.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Which means that Jesus is not God.
    Jesus was not God incarnated in the flesh, Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    God manifests Himself in the flesh in every age. "Him Whom God will make manifest" is Baha'u'llah.

    “Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned…. That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270
     
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