Is Islam peaceful?

[Stevicus]

You asked why they were fighting the West, I explained and now, like the Governments of the West, you choose to ignore the issues and look the other way.

If nothing else, I hope you can see it has nothing to do with hating the Western way of life. They deplore the meddling and strife caused by those who should know better.

I'm not ignoring the issues. I'm just trying to clarify exactly which issues are in dispute. This is obviously not a religious dispute between Islam and the West, so why is it painted as such? This is nationalistic.

 

[icehorse]

It is true GOD knew where your final destination would be Billions of Earth years before you were created, but He gifted you with free will, and pointed to clear signs of His existence. He explained why you were created, and what you must do to be successful, both in this life and the next, but YOU chose to ignore His signs, His advice and His punishments of YOUR own free will, and as a result, just as promised He increased you in your disbelief.

If you want internal peace, then take the necessary steps to rectify your heart.

If all of this is true (unlikely), then he also gave me my cognitive capabilities. AND, he gave me really weak evidence. The evidence I see in the world, is that people thrive and flourish in secular societies and that they mostly do not in theocratic societies.

So really, he's asking me to abandon my critical thinking capabilities, based on very weak evidence.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The Quran begs to differ.

Surah 7:155 - "And Moses chose from his people seventy men for Our appointment. And when the earthquake seized them, he said, "My Lord, if You had willed, You could have destroyed them before and me [as well]. Would You destroy us for what the foolish among us have done? This is not but Your trial by which You send astray whom You will and guide whom You will. You are our Protector, so forgive us and have mercy upon us; and You are the best of forgivers."

Yes, the verse is talking about Moses and the Jews but the premise is clear - Allah, being all-powerful and all-knowing, is ultimately responsible for deciding who will accept Islam and who won't - as well as their choices generally. I've seen sites like Answering Christianity try to apologise for this but all they do is what they condemn in us non-Muslims: quoting Quranic verses out of context.

But a lot of non-muslims cherry pick verses such as what you're doing to prove their own views. You don't read Qur'an in the context in which it was revealed.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If all of this is true (unlikely), then he also gave me my cognitive capabilities. AND, he gave me really weak evidence. The evidence I see in the world, is that people thrive and flourish in secular societies and that they mostly do not in theocratic societies.

So really, he's asking me to abandon my critical thinking capabilities, based on very weak evidence.

I tend to think Islam at least in the golden age was more secular than you think.

 

[sun rise]

Jews and Christians have an "us" vs "them" belief as well. Christians especially evangelicals are very colorful telling the world if one does not believe in Jesus as lord and savior then it is hopeless. I tend to think religious fervor tends to make one atheist because it makes God sound like a malevolent being.

That's true for many.

Those that read the Sermon on the Mount, for example, and try to act according to those principles are a different group. They are not out there shouting but serving the poor, caring for the sick and so forth. Perhaps one can say that they are evangelical in the sense that by trying to live the message of love at the heart of the Bible, they are trying to make their lives so beautiful that people are attracted to them.

I might call this the evangelism of the heart not of the mind.

 

[sun rise]

I tend to think Islam at least in the golden age was more secular than you think.

The story of Islam in Spain might be an illustration. By today's standards it was not, of course, but by the standards of the day it was as is illustrated by what happened when they invited the fanatics in during the reconquista.

 

[icehorse]

I tend to think Islam at least in the golden age was more secular than you think.

I think if we could get Islam back to where it was 1000-1200 years ago it would be a big improvement. But it was internal forces within Islam that ended the golden age. It was NOT outside forces.

 

[Muslim-UK]

If all of this is true (unlikely), then he also gave me my cognitive capabilities. AND, he gave me really weak evidence.

Your cognitive capabilities are the only evidence required to prove the existence of a Creator.

Non theists assert everything exists due to blind random physical processes, random atoms and molecules created our reality. How then did something as complex as the mind come from that? A advanced Supercomputer capable of processing vast information, with the ability to shift through it and come to truth, making sense of our reality.

How long does it take a human built Supercomputer to map 1 second of brain activity?

40 MINUTES using a Supercomputer with 1.4 millino GB of RAM and 700,000 processor cores.

How powerful is a mind? Supercomputer takes 40 minutes to map 1 second

The evidence I see in the world, is that people thrive and flourish in secular societies and that they mostly do not in theocratic societies.

What theocratic societies are these? Is the measure of success the balance of own's current account, number of cars on the drive way and size of house? Perhaps beauty of wife and number of children? The success in Western secular Countries is because we are far removed from our purpose in life, side tracked chasing wealth, buying the latest gadgets, keeping up with the neighbours, yet most people feel a emptiness within, many people turn to drink and drugs to fill the void, many others develop mental health problems, yet others see no point and take their own lives.

For those not drinking, taking drugs or contemplating suicide the following saying of the Prophet pbuh holds true:

“The World is a prison for the believer and Paradise for the kafir (disbeliever),” Sahih Muslim, vol.4, 7058

So really, he's asking me to abandon my critical thinking capabilities, based on very weak evidence.

He's not asking anything of you. He's pointing out some truths, you were created to worship GOD, you require food, and water, oxygen to breath, just as you were born, you will one day die and turn to dust.

We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed, but only as a reminder for those who fear [ Allah ] Qur'an 20:2-3

And is it not sufficient for them that We revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for a people who believe. Qur'an 29:51

Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian. Qur'an 15:9

 

[Revoltingest]

But a lot of non-muslims cherry pick verses such as what you're doing to prove their own views. You don't read Qur'an in the context in which it was revealed.

Would you explain the context for some of the more violent sounding quoted verses?

 

[Muslim-UK]

Would you explain the context for some of the more violent sounding quoted verses?

Pretty much self explanatory if you read 3-4 verses before and after the quoted verses.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pretty much self explanatory if you read 3-4 verses before and after the quoted verses.

I'm not familiar enuf with the Koran to interpret verses which explain the context.
I'll rely upon those familiar & positively disposed towards it.

 

[Muslim-UK]

I'm not familiar enuf with the Koran to interpret verses which explain the context.
I'll rely upon those familiar & positively disposed towards it.

If using a PC or Laptop the following site Surah Al-Fatihah [1:1] has a settings cog top right, in there you can click Surah, (Chapter) information, which will give you the basic outline of the Chapter to hand.

 

[Revoltingest]

If using a PC or Laptop the following site Surah Al-Fatihah [1:1] has a settings cog top right, in there you can click Surah, (Chapter) information, which will give you the basic outline of the Chapter to hand.

I know that posters can overwhelm with numerous quotations.
It's a lotta work to address them all. But still, I prefer to see
analysis from one already familiar. You could just pick one,
& address others later (keeping the work load manageable).

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think if we could get Islam back to where it was 1000-1200 years ago it would be a big improvement. But it was internal forces within Islam that ended the golden age. It was NOT outside forces.

Islam is not the issue. The regions are the issue.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The story of Islam in Spain might be an illustration. By today's standards it was not, of course, but by the standards of the day it was as is illustrated by what happened when they invited the fanatics in during the reconquista.

If I could education would be free for all children and adults. Medicine would be mandatory. Science and exploration to the stars would be mandatory. I tend to think these are the echos of our past.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

See post 116 above.

It is utterly nonsensical to blame God for your actions. Remember 'Free Will'.

I saw that post. It's meaningless, does not even attempt to address the contradiction inherent to 'free will' being imposed by an all-knowing deity beyond repeating your initial assertion, and is borderline preaching.

You can say "free will" as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that an all-knowing, all-powerful god ultimately means existence is deterministic and that the Quran itsels says I can't accept Islam as the true religion unless he decides I will. Your own scripture says that. If we can't make a decision free of Allah's interference or without his foreknowledge then existence isn't conducive to free will.

But a lot of non-muslims cherry pick verses such as what you're doing to prove their own views. You don't read Qur'an in the context in which it was revealed.

And yet it seems to be okay when the people at Answering Christianity do the exact same thing or when Muslim-UK does it in post #131. Why is this cherry-picking acceptable when Muslims do it but when non-Muslims like myself do it's suddenly not allowed? I never see you call them out on it. I wonder why...

Your cognitive capabilities are the only evidence required to prove the existence of a Creator.

Quite the non-sequitur you have there. Unfortunately for you the problem is two-fold. You've got to evidence the claim that:

1. Sentience is the result of a god;
2. Sentience is the result of your god.

Even if we take your baseless assertion that Stone Age humans were born knowing and worshipping a single god as true, that still leaves you with the problem of evidencing that they were worshipping Allah. In fact, archaeology shows that it's far more likely that if a Great Maker religion was present or prevalent in the Stone Age it was centred around the worship of Goddess such as the Earth Mother, not God.

Non theists assert everything exists due to blind random physical processes, random atoms and molecules created our reality.

Do they? First off, I'd be surprised if most non-theists called a process 'random'. Secondly, I'll need to see a source for this claim.

How then did something as complex as the mind come from that?

Evolution by natural selection.

A advanced Supercomputer capable of processing vast information, with the ability to shift through it and come to truth, making sense of our reality.

How long does it take a human built Supercomputer to map 1 second of brain activity?

40 MINUTES using a Supercomputer with 1.4 millino GB of RAM and 700,000 processor cores.

How powerful is a mind? Supercomputer takes 40 minutes to map 1 second

It's funny; a millennium ago the fact that humans were utterly helpless in the face of virulent diseases such as the Black Death was all the evidence necessary to convince the pious that there was a god and that it was theirs'. Yet look at where we are now; we understand a multitude of diseases, their symptoms, life cycles and how to treat them. All it took was time and the application of science.

What theocratic societies are these?

Islamic ones.

Is the measure of success the balance of own's current account, number of cars on the drive way and size of house? Perhaps beauty of wife and number of children?

Depends on the person you ask, I suppose. Personally, I'd measure my success in happiness rather than wealth.

The success in Western secular Countries is because we are far removed from our purpose in life, side tracked chasing wealth, buying the latest gadgets, keeping up with the neighbours, yet most people feel a emptiness within, many people turn to drink and drugs to fill the void, many others develop mental health problems, yet others see no point and take their own lives.

And what, you think these problems are removed simply by adopting Islam? Are you real?

For those not drinking, taking drugs or contemplating suicide the following saying of the Prophet pbuh holds true:

“The World is a prison for the believer and Paradise for the kafir (disbeliever),” Sahih Muslim, vol.4, 7058

Life is what you make of it. The insinuation that non-Muslims, by dint of being non-Muslims, must be miserable is seriously condescending.

He's not asking anything of you. He's pointing out some truths, you were created to worship GOD

This is called 'begging the question' and is a logical fallacy. You're asking us to presuppose your assertion (in bold) is true as part of a wider claim.

you require food, and water, oxygen to breath, just as you were born, you will one day die and turn to dust.

If observable reality which any half-wit could notice is the basis for what constitutes 'divine revelation' then that sure explains a lot.

We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed, but only as a reminder for those who fear [ Allah ] Qur'an 20:2-3

And is it not sufficient for them that We revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for a people who believe. Qur'an 29:51

Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian. Qur'an 15:9

Why is it okay for you to quote Quran verses out of context but when non-Muslims do the exact same thing it's suddenly wrong?

The hypocrisy is staggering.

The quran is clear and easy for the ones who are willing to understand it, but you aren't among those who are interested to understand the quran or more accurately you're among the ones
who God doesn't want them to be in Islam as the quran stated as well.

So you agree that people being sent to hell for not accepting Islam is Allah's fault?

 

[Muslim-UK]

I know that posters can overwhelm with numerous quotations.
It's a lotta work to address them all. But still, I prefer to see
analysis from one already familiar. You could just pick one,
& address others later (keeping the work load manageable).

Was it a post on this thread? If so, what number, I'll go take a look.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I saw that post. It's meaningless, does not even attempt to address the contradiction inherent to 'free will' being imposed by an all-knowing deity beyond repeating your initial assertion, and is borderline preaching.

You can say "free will" as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that an all-knowing, all-powerful god ultimately means existence is deterministic and that the Quran itsels says I can't accept Islam as the true religion unless he decides I will. Your own scripture says that. If we can't make a decision free of Allah's interference or without his foreknowledge then existence isn't conducive to free will.




And yet it seems to be okay when the people at Answering Christianity do the exact same thing or when Muslim-UK does it in post #131. Why is this cherry-picking acceptable when Muslims do it but when non-Muslims like myself do it's suddenly not allowed? I never see you call them out on it. I wonder why...




Quite the non-sequitur you have there. Unfortunately for you the problem is two-fold. You've got to evidence the claim that:

1. Sentience is the result of a god;
2. Sentience is the result of your god.

Even if we take your baseless assertion that Stone Age humans were born knowing and worshipping a single god as true, that still leaves you with the problem of evidencing that they were worshipping Allah. In fact, archaeology shows that it's far more likely that if a Great Maker religion was present or prevalent in the Stone Age it was centred around the worship of Goddess such as the Earth Mother, not God.



Do they? First off, I'd be surprised if most non-theists called a process 'random'. Secondly, I'll need to see a source for this claim.




Evolution by natural selection.




It's funny; a millennium ago the fact that humans were utterly helpless in the face of virulent diseases such as the Black Death was all the evidence necessary to convince the pious that there was a god and that it was theirs'. Yet look at where we are now; we understand a multitude of diseases, their symptoms, life cycles and how to treat them. All it took was time and the application of science.



Islamic ones.




Depends on the person you ask, I suppose. Personally, I'd measure my success in happiness rather than wealth.




And what, you think these problems are removed simply by adopting Islam? Are you real?




Life is what you make of it. The insinuation that non-Muslims, by dint of being non-Muslims, must be miserable is seriously condescending.



This is called 'begging the question' and is a logical fallacy. You're asking us to presuppose your assertion (in bold) is true as part of a wider claim.




If observable reality which any half-wit could notice is the basis for what constitutes 'divine revelation' then that sure explains a lot.




Why is it okay for you to quote Quran verses out of context but when non-Muslims do the exact same thing it's suddenly wrong?

The hypocrisy is staggering.




So you agree that people being sent to hell for not accepting Islam is Allah's fault?

Lol answering Christianity? What about the website answering Islam? Allah (THE GOD) knows what is in the hearts of people.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Why is it okay for you to quote Quran verses out of context but when non-Muslims do the exact same thing it's suddenly wrong?

Prove the verses are out of context, and are nothing to do with the Qur'an being a reminder.

 

[Revoltingest]

Was it a post on this thread? If so, what number, I'll go take a look.

Probably.....I don't remember who, when or where.
But I'm sure a poster will sometime soon give you a quote to make a point.