Is Islam peaceful?

[MohammadPali]

I am perfectly aware of Hindu fundamentalism. do not think think Hindus like me are doing nothing about it. I am involved in programs that support and expand the rights of people who are underrepresented or victimized within or outside Hindu community. I am as much against Hindu supremacists as against Islamic and Christian supremacists as I consider all of them to be evil ideologies that needs to be extirpated from society everywhere. Any Hindu who is oppressing or is violent against other human beings due to their religion or caste or belief has fallen prey to Asuric (demoniacal) delusions and tendencies. I won't share food or water with such a person and consider him or her untouchable until he/she repents or is punished for their actions.

Wow, all of a sudden, the lord vishnu, the tiger, the prey mantis, and whats the other god that you worship ? The monkey, yep, they inspired you to actually speak up about the hindu fundamentalism in your country. I'm impressed. Did you finally watch slum dog millionaire ? Do you have a tiger named richard parker ?

I second thought, thats kung fu panda and the fearsome five, the tiger, the monkey, prey mantis, the snake. Great movie, must be a big hit in india, But not a big hit like that hindu guru guy that was jailed for rape and sexual assualt, etc etc, that guru of bling bling. You know it.

 

[Augustus]

No they're not. Of Course you hear of problems here and there. You're wrong. Why don't you visit there and see for yourself ? You're just a random guy in the internet spouting non-sense. Go see for yourself.

Have been several times to Dubai and Qatar and know several people who have worked there.

People I met were generally really nice, very friendly and helpful. To be honest, most people are nice in most places I go to. Doesn't change the fact that Gulf societies are systemically racist and that migrant workers are treated like ****.

On a flight, was speaking to someone who worked as a maid in Riyad going home for a 2 week break. I asked her what the place was like and she said she didn't know as this was the first time she had left the house in 5 years.

Racism exists all over the world, but it seems like you only want to blame Westerners and 'cow worshippers'.

In this video (22.30) a South African man complains of racist treatment on the Hajj. Later on he finds acceptance, there are good and bad everywhere.

Foreigners eight times more likely to be executed in Saudi Arabia, report says

"Poor foreign workers are literally paying with their lives when accused of capital crimes in Saudi Arabia," said Amnesty International UK Director Kate Allen. "Frequently bamboozled by secretive and unfair trials conducted in a language they don't even understand, they go to their deaths with little assistance from their home countries and little mercy from a grossly unfair Saudi justice system. The use of capital punishment in Saudi Arabia is a disgrace. The Kingdom should introduce a moratorium immediately."

Foreigners eight times more likely to be executed in Saudi Arabia, report says

Death toll among Qatar’s 2022 World Cup workers revealed

Nepalese migrants building the infrastructure to host the 2022 World Cup have died at a rate of one every two days in 2014 – despite Qatar’s promises to improve their working conditions, the Guardian has learned.

The figure excludes deaths of Indian, Sri Lankan and Bangladeshi workers, raising fears that if fatalities among all migrants were taken into account the toll would almost certainly be more than one a day.

Death toll among Qatar’s 2022 World Cup workers revealed

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

'Gulf Arabs aren't racist', says poster who previously issued a rather racist post about Indians.

 

[Notanumber]

That lady is an opportunist. I met her, I asked her what is the first revelation that mohammad peace be upon him was given, and she dead stared at me like WOWW I don't know ! I even asked her where in the quran does it say about honor killings, she ignored me. Shes a liar.

This sheds some more light on the subject - The Qur'an contains words by `Abdullah ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh

 

[1robin]

You made a statement saying,

"I am unaware of any mainstream religious text that promotes more violence than the Quran."

What's more violent than the following commandments from god Jesus..

Deuteronomy 7
1 “When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Gir'ga****es, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Per'izzites, the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites, seven nations greater and mightier than yourselves, 2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not make marriages with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons. 4 For they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods; then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. 5 But thus shall you deal with them: you shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and hew down their Ashe'rim, and burn their graven images with fire."

You can't even make peace with them. That's barbaric.

Here's a prayer to Jesus:

Psalms 137

7 Lord, be sure to punish the Edomites for what they did
when Jerusalem was captured.
They shouted, “Destroy its buildings!
Pull them down to the ground!”
8 Babylon, you will be destroyed!
Bless the one who pays you back for what you did to us.
9 Bless the one who grabs your babies
and smashes them against a rock.

Here's the rules of war according to god Jesus:

1 Samuel 15
1 One day Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel. Now listen to his message. 2 The Lord All-Powerful says: ‘When the Israelites came out of Egypt, the Amalekites tried to stop them from going to Canaan. I saw what the Amalekites did. 3 Now go fight against the Amalekites. You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys.’”

4 Saul gathered the army together at Telaim. There were 200,000 foot soldiers and 10,000 other men, including the men from Judah. 5 Then Saul went to the city of Amalek and waited in the valley. 6 He said to the Kenites, “Go away! Leave the Amalekites. Then I won’t destroy you with the Amalekites. You showed kindness to the Israelites when they came out of Egypt.” So the Kenites left the Amalekites.

7 Saul defeated the Amalekites. He fought them and chased them all the way from Havilah to Shur, at the border of Egypt. 8 Agag was the king of the Amalekites. Saul captured Agag alive. Saul let Agag live, but he killed all the men in Agag’s army. 9 Saul and the Israelite soldiers felt bad about destroying everything. So they let Agag live. They also kept the fat cattle, the best sheep, and the lambs. They kept everything that was worth keeping. They didn’t want to destroy those things. They destroyed only what was not worth keeping.

That'll do for now. Please feel free to post 3 violent verses from the Qur'an and include the context as I did along with the translation being used. I got your Bible verses from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

I am sincerely sorry that you wasted your time here but I gave you several chances to have this debate without hijacking someone else's thread and you failed to rise to the challenge. I will give you one last opportunity. Create a one on one thread (so you don't derail this thread) and we can debate which religion promotes the most violence.

 

[Muslim-UK]

I am sincerely sorry that you wasted your time here but I gave you several chances to have this debate without hijacking someone else's thread and you failed to rise to the challenge. I will give you one last opportunity. Create a one on one thread (so you don't derail this thread) and we can debate which religion promotes the most violence.

No need, just ask any qualified, respected Secular Historian

 

[1robin]

No need, just ask any qualified, respected Secular Historian

So you never actually wanted to have the debate you requested.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

190 makes clear you fight those who FIGHT YOU.

191 Take back your property from where they expelled you.

If they stop fighting you and want peace, then agree to it.

Seems very fair and reasonable to me. This just shows how non Muslims deliberately use selective verses without attempting to give any context.

You can see why Sir George Bernard Shaw wrote, "I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."

And that can be open to abuse. Do Muslims have a sacred duty to defend the Rohingya because they're being turfed out of Burma - even though it was the Rohingya who started the conflict by turning their guns on the Buddhist Rakhines in the 1940s? The Quran would suggest that Rohingya should have the right to fight back because the Burmese government has forced them out of their homes.

Aside from that, you've still not addressed my point: I've been doing the exact same thing you did when you quoted Quranic verses, and when Answering Christianity did it on their website. Why is it okay for Muslims to do this but when non-Muslims like me do it you come down on us like a ton of bricks? We're using the standards of argument you created; why is this not acceptable?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

No it isn't Gods' fault, for example we don't want criminals to live in our communities, refusing
them doesn't mean our fault, but because of their deeds they're rejected.

A very poor analogy. Humans don't have anywhere near the level of control or power over other peoples' ability to make choices that Allah reputedly does. Remember, your god is apparently all-knowing and all-powerful. If he has all the power and you give him all the credit when things go well he also deserves all the blame when things go poorly. And no matter how many times you say 'you can't blame him', that position will never be logically consistent nor reasonable.

The person

Do you think a person's beliefs can influence/motivate their actions?

I've done this (calling out Muslims) numerous times on this website.

Really? Where? I've not seen it and I suspect I'm not the only one to whom this is news.

I actually made a thread in the Islam DIR if you cared to read it.

I saw that! It makes for an interesting read but, sadly, does not call out Muslims for moaning of non-Muslims engaging in the exact style of debate they use (quoting Quran verses out of context while complaining that non-Muslims do it).

Is this the 'Al-Ghazali ended the Golden Age' type of nonsense? It is a very, very poor argument.

It was long term economic decline and external forces.

Why do you think it was clearly internal forces?

Were you not talking about Al-Ghazali being a driving force behind the end of the Islamic Golden Age a while ago or am I just making that up in my head?

 

[Augustus]

Were you not talking about Al-Ghazali being a driving force behind the end of the Islamic Golden Age a while ago or am I just making that up in my head?

At the risk of sounding like a politician, I don't recall making that argument. However, I change my mind on things all the time because I tend to read about stuff I'm interested in so can't be certain what I said a few years ago (I often can't remember what a said a few days ago ). Then I start 2nd guessing myself "Hmmmm. Did I actually say that....?"

I don't recall ever holding that position though so I'm pretty confident I never said it.

 

[FearGod]

A very poor analogy. Humans don't have anywhere near the level of control or power over other peoples' ability to make choices that Allah reputedly does. Remember, your god is apparently all-knowing and all-powerful. If he has all the power and you give him all the credit when things go well he also deserves all the blame when things go poorly. And no matter how many times you say 'you can't blame him', that position will never be logically consistent nor reasonable.

Yes You're right, God have the power to do so, but

And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.(32:13)

If all of us have to be programmed then that means we'll be angels,
all of them are programmed to obey God, but God created humans
with the free will of how to live away from God's control but that
doesn't mean they'll be free for their bad deeds, God said if you
do then you have to face my severe punishment in the judgment day.

 

[icehorse]

A very poor analogy. Humans don't have anywhere near the level of control or power over other peoples' ability to make choices that Allah reputedly does. Remember, your god is apparently all-knowing and all-powerful. If he has all the power and you give him all the credit when things go well he also deserves all the blame when things go poorly. And no matter how many times you say 'you can't blame him', that position will never be logically consistent nor reasonable.

well put.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Aside from that, you've still not addressed my point: I've been doing the exact same thing you did when you quoted Quranic verses, and when Answering Christianity did it on their website. Why is it okay for Muslims to do this but when non-Muslims like me do it you come down on us like a ton of bricks? We're using the standards of argument you created; why is this not acceptable?

If I post something, and you don't feel I've given the context, then by all means point it out, just as I do with others.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A very poor analogy. Humans don't have anywhere near the level of control or power over other peoples' ability to make choices that Allah reputedly does. Remember, your god is apparently all-knowing and all-powerful. If he has all the power and you give him all the credit when things go well he also deserves all the blame when things go poorly. And no matter how many times you say 'you can't blame him', that position will never be logically consistent nor reasonable.




Do you think a person's beliefs can influence/motivate their actions?




Really? Where? I've not seen it and I suspect I'm not the only one to whom this is news.




I saw that! It makes for an interesting read but, sadly, does not call out Muslims for moaning of non-Muslims engaging in the exact style of debate they use (quoting Quran verses out of context while complaining that non-Muslims do it).




Were you not talking about Al-Ghazali being a driving force behind the end of the Islamic Golden Age a while ago or am I just making that up in my head?

Well I believe in the God of Islam although I have my differences I believe in him

 

[Notanumber]

I found these to be both interesting and informative.

He has been banned from entering the UK while Islamic Jihadists are being allowed to return from the Middle East - Up to 350 jihadists returned to UK from ISIS-held Syria | Daily Mail Online

 

[icehorse]

I found these to be both interesting and informative.

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks that there are any false claims in the videos in post #297?

 

[Sakeenah]

I found these to be both interesting and informative.

He has been banned from entering the UK while Islamic Jihadists are being allowed to return from the Middle East - Up to 350 jihadists returned to UK from ISIS-held Syria | Daily Mail Online

I'm familiar with his lectures.
Listening to his lectures (rather than to a credible scholar of merit) for information on Islam or Muslims is the same as going to someone who thinks he's a doctor because he knows how to look up symptoms and cures on google (rather than to an actual physician) for healing.

Robert Spencer is not a Scholar on Islam. His 15 minutes of fame is centered around the deception that he is a world-renowned " Islamic scholar an expert". But Robert Spencer's biography and educational background reveals he's nothing close.
He holds zero Ph.D's on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies. He holds zero Master Degrees on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies. Let's see how many diplomas in Quranic studies,Hadith,Fiqh, or shariah has from Western universities or reputable Islamic houses of learning such as Al Azhar or Qom..also Zero.
He also hasn't published any peer-reviewed academic papers.
There are also zero real scholars of Islam, people who actually hold themselves to scientific standards and objectivity in scholarship that agree with Robert Spencer.

Robert Spencer is an anti-Muslim polemicist and advocate. He presents himself as a “scholar” and "expert" in order to sell his “scholarship” to those who have little in depth knowledge on Islam.

Robert Spencer has been banned from entering the UK because he has nothing positive to contribute to British society. His agenda was not to contribute to good commumity relations,his goal was to divide.
I agree with Keith Vaz, chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, who said that the UK should never become a stage for inflammatory speakers who promote hate. And before you say, what about extremist ISIS Jihadis and their supporters..yes including them.

 

[Sakeenah]

And that can be open to abuse. Do Muslims have a sacred duty to defend the Rohingya because they're being turfed out of Burma - even though it was the Rohingya who started the conflict by turning their guns on the Buddhist Rakhines in the 1940s? The Quran would suggest that Rohingya should have the right to fight back because the Burmese government has forced them out of their homes.

Aside from that, you've still not addressed my point: I've been doing the exact same thing you did when you quoted Quranic verses, and when Answering Christianity did it on their website. Why is it okay for Muslims to do this but when non-Muslims like me do it you come down on us like a ton of bricks? We're using the standards of argument you created; why is this not acceptable?

I wasn't following this thread, and I see I've missed quite a few pages(14 pages) . Would you mind explaining which point you wanted him to address?

 

[Sakeenah]

No they're not. Of Course you hear of problems here and there. You're wrong. Why don't you visit there and see for yourself ? You're just a random guy in the internet spouting non-sense. Go see for yourself.

Brother, to be fair..there's quite a lot of racism/colourism in the Gulf countries.
Especially towards migrant workers from third world countries.

 

[Notanumber]

I'm familiar with his lectures.
Listening to his lectures (rather than to a credible scholar of merit) for information on Islam or Muslims is the same as going to someone who thinks he's a doctor because he knows how to look up symptoms and cures on google (rather than to an actual physician) for healing.

Robert Spencer is not a Scholar on Islam. His 15 minutes of fame is centered around the deception that he is a world-renowned " Islamic scholar an expert". But Robert Spencer's biography and educational background reveals he's nothing close.
He holds zero Ph.D's on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies. He holds zero Master Degrees on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies. Let's see how many diplomas in Quranic studies,Hadith,Fiqh, or shariah has from Western universities or reputable Islamic houses of learning such as Al Azhar or Qom..also Zero.
He also hasn't published any peer-reviewed academic papers.
There are also zero real scholars of Islam, people who actually hold themselves to scientific standards and objectivity in scholarship that agree with Robert Spencer.

Robert Spencer is an anti-Muslim polemicist and advocate. He presents himself as a “scholar” and "expert" in order to sell his “scholarship” to those who have little in depth knowledge on Islam.

Robert Spencer has been banned from entering the UK because he has nothing positive to contribute to British society. His agenda was not to contribute to good commumity relations,his goal was to divide.
I agree with Keith Vaz, chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, who said that the UK should never become a stage for inflammatory speakers who promote hate. And before you say, what about extremist ISIS Jihadis and their supporters..yes including them.

Thank you for your comments but I would not compare Robert Spencer to the likes of Keith Vaz the washing machine salesman - Keith Vaz rent boy scandal continues as cops assess if offences were committed

I don’t believe in shooting the messenger just because I don’t like the message.

I said that I found those videos to be both interesting and informative.

For instance, is he not correct about Mogadishu?

Following the outbreak of the civil war in the early 1990s, Islamism appeared to be largely confined to the radical Al-Itihaad al-Islamiya group. In 1992, Colonel Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed marshalled forces to successfully expel an Islamist extremist group linked to the outfit, which had laid siege to Bosaso, a prominent port city and the commercial capital of the northeastern part of the country.[24] The turn of the 21st century saw an increasing prevalence of puritanical Sunnism, including in the form of Muwahhidism and Salafism.

Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia

He is definitely correct about Saudi Arabia and its influence.

Islam is divisive.