oh ok, no prob.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is Islam peaceful?
- Thread starter Afnan
- Start date
Notanumber
A Free Man
How much longer will these debates be allowed to take place in our western universities?
Free speech is vital in a civilised society.
Free speech is vital in a civilised society.
I saw no debate, just two videos of monologues. The second was of a lady who has been labelled a extremist by the UKIP.
Ukip 'anti-Islam' leadership candidate threatens to split party, as senior official quits in protest
Notanumber
A Free Man
Here is the full debate but there was nothing stopping you from posting it. It was well attended.
She should have won the leadership of UKIP but she is starting her own political party tomorrow.
For Britain Party Launching on Sunday - Anne Marie Waters
Ex-Muslims need a voice in the UK.
BTW, I liked the Corbyn video in your link.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
I am usually hesitant about responding to anything in reference to Islam, though that may be due to the fact that Christianity hits closer to home where I live than Islam.
Truth be told, I have no problems with people of Islam in America. That is because they are most likely escaping the harshness of Islam in the Asia-pacific area.
Islam outside of America is not peaceful from what I reasonably understand.
Truth be told, I have no problems with people of Islam in America. That is because they are most likely escaping the harshness of Islam in the Asia-pacific area.
Islam outside of America is not peaceful from what I reasonably understand.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
1. Islam is a body of believers made up of over a billion people. It would be impossible to determine how violent each believer is or was.
2. Or you could say Islam is a faith but a faith is just a word or label, and words or labels themselves are amoral.
3. A better question would have been does the Quran encourage violence?
The answer to that question is emphatically yes. I am unaware of any mainstream religious text that promotes more violence than the Quran. I will certainly supply specific verses and events to justify my response upon request.
For now let me merely point out that Muhammad was not even what we would typically call a bad person. He was a violent tyrant of which there few who were more violent in the historical record. He initially tried to build his religion peacefully for the first decade or so. While doing so he only managed to recruit a few hundred (mostly friends and family) to his "cause". He finally irritated the citizens of Mecca that they eventually ran him out of town. He was hired by various thugs around the city of medina to settle tribal disputes and was given some "soldiers" and money to do so. He instead started raiding caravans (which was a wide spread practice in Arabia anyway). This he was actually good at doing, eventually creating a quasi-caravan raiding army of thugs. For this period of about 12 years he no longer tried to peacefully spread Islam but did so by having large sums of money, power, and favors to grant. So the first peaceful decade of Islam produced a few hundred "converts", but the second violent decade he gained over a 100,000 followers. If peace was selling Islam wasn't buying.
Now I will leave it to you as to what information you would like from me to support my claim that the Quran and the founding of the Muslim faith was horrifically violent.
Notanumber
A Free Man
The world is multicultural by definition and is therefore full of hatred for others. The West has welcomed multiculturalism across its borders and is now suffering the consequences.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
What about Answering Islam? That's just another example of non-Muslims 'quoting Quran verses out of context' which is something you condemn. And you're actually using non-Muslims doing this to deflect from Muslims doing the exact same thing. Unbelievable.
You didn't answer my question, by the way. Why do you call non-Muslims out on quoting Quranic verses 'out of context' but don't call Muslims out on the exact same thing? Why the double standard?
Very well. Using your own words:
Non-Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = out of context.
Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = in context
Apparently
I can't see the Council of ex-Muslims of Britain taking kindly to this. Waters will be courting the 'if it's brown or black it's a Muslim' knuckle-dragging portion of the electorate. The idea that a far-right political party is the only one which seemingly wants to actively give ex-Muslims a voice as ex-Muslims is absolutely disgusting.
Your Bible is much more violent mr Christian.
Post the worst verse on violence from the Qur'an and let's compare to your Bible. We can examine both verses in context.
I'm sure you won't have the conviction to meet this open challenge.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
The Bible and the Qur'an are equal in violence, especially in how the god figure is a monster.
Non-Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = out of context.
Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = in context
Apparently
In my post, I said the Qur'an says it is a reminder. I posted the verses and you said out of context Here's the first verse I posted, highlighted...
Ta, Ha. verse 1
We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed, but only as a reminder for those who fear [ Allah ] Qur'an 20 verses 2-3
A revelation from He who created the earth and highest heavens, verse 4
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established. verse 5
To Him belongs what is in the heavens and what is on the earth and what is between them and what is under the soil. verse 6
How did I take the verse out of context?
Now you make the claim as most non believers do, the Qur'an commands Muslims to kill all the unbelievers, post the verse and let's see if you, like them are taking it out of context.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Even if that were true it is a poor defense of Islam. If Ted Bundy's lawyer had said his client is innocent because Stalin killed more people the judge would probably have laughed him out of the court. The OT is mainly a record of history and history has wars in it. You can't find a single verse in the NT justifying violence for any reason. However the bible is irrelevant to the question asked in the OP? Changing the subject won't soak up the blood Muhammad shed.
That has nothing to do with this thread. Is this really the best defense of the Quran you have?
I have enough conviction to invite you to create a one on one thread where we can decide this new issue your using to divert this thread, and I have enough respect for this threads author not to let you derail it from the context they asked their question in. So the ball is in your court, create a thread and we will go head to head.
I can't believe it, not one word in defense of Islam in your whole post. Your the worst Islamic apologist I have ever ran into. I have to leave for today but tomorrow I will check to see if you actually were willing to go one on one.
Why am I not surprised you backed out.
You made the claim, then ran off with your tail between your legs.
Go ahead, make your case and let's see.
Yes no prob, see you tomorrow.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
No it isn't Gods' fault, for example we don't want criminals to live in our communities, refusing
them doesn't mean our fault, but because of their deeds they're rejected.
MohammadPali
Active Member
I don't think you're accurate. The prophet mohammad peace be upon him, when he was first allowed to actually engage against the pagan arabs, he went against them because the people of medina were starving, and the pagan arabs had a boycott and a semi-blockade against medina for harboring muslims. And alot of the caravans from medina where being stolen by the pagan arabs.
So what he did was, he gathered a group of muslims to engage the pagan arabs. And there were reports that abu sufyan a well known quraish elite from mecca had a very large caravan. He was heading north towards syria, and had to pass not far from medina.
So abu sufyan had scouts, and he was told that beware there is a muslim group looking for your caravan. So abu sufyan was in total shock. First the fact that mohammad pbuh was engaging against them with a group of men, and the muslims will get all these goods. This was a shock to him. Mohammad never engaged, he was always subdued, restraint.
So he sent a scout to report back to mecca, to assemble men to fight off the muslims. They didn't just assemble an army, they assembled a small legion, of men, some 2,000 men equipped, swords, arrows, they had men on mounts. They even brought musicians, and dancers. The muslims only had 313 men.
Abu sufyan managed to escape the hands of the muslims, he made a very very large U-TURN towards the sea and went around and back past medina and back to mecca. While the assembled pagan arab army was dead smack infront of the muslims at badr. It was called the battle of badr.
Mohammad peace be upon him won this very victory and won a very large booty. And the man he went after with the caravans abu sufyan became a muslim later on, and his son muawiyah was a very famous muslim scribe, he was a muslim and head of the muslims at one point.
Many of the adversaries of mohammad peace be upon him where his staunch supporters in the end, and they where more powerful than him.
There are 3 men that never lost a battle or war in the history of mankind, Khalid ibn walid, Omar ibn khuttub, and genghis khan. OMAR was an adversay of mohammad peace be upon him and he becames a muslim, and khalid ibn walid defeated the muslims at the battle of uhud, and he became a muslim later, and he was more powerful than mohammad, militarily. Khalid ibn Walid his nick name is the sword of allah, and it was never ever broken, ever. SYRIA are the descendants of khalid ibn walid. They wear his name in their hearts. And genghis khan was a tyrant hell bent on destruction, eventually many of his people became muslims.
Last edited:
MohammadPali
Active Member
Is islam peaceful ? what kind of question is this ? Look at the last 50 years, tell me whats more violent ? The zionists bolshevik movement ? Hitler's aryan-christian one- thousand year reich campaign ? Pol pot ? the khmer rouge ? Are these movements muslims ? We had nothing to do with the most violent acts. And if it did, it was politically motivated and have nothing to do with main stream islam.
I see it that way as well. A religion or a scripture cannot be violent - they are not people. People can be violent and the greatest atrocities are as you listed. I disagree with some of the hudud punishments as they are carried out by the Wahhabis and ISIS and utterly disagree with the terrorists, a small minority, for example. And there are other aspects of Islam such as the treatment of a woman's testimony as being worth less than a man's that I disagree with. But that's a different matter from labeling one of the great religions of the world evil as some do which ignores the positive side of Islam.
My background is Jewish and when I smell the same kind of dung as my parents and their parents did, I'm more than offended. There's a Jewish expression NEVER AGAIN which applies to the holocaust. When there are echoes of that atrocity directed as Muslims, I stand with my Muslim brothers and sisters and echo their assalamu alaikum with shalom aleichem.
And when I use my cognitive capabilities I determine that there is some chance of a Creator, although that raises the question of who created the Creator? But more to the point, my cognitive capabilities lead me to the very strong conclusion that any Creator who could create this universe either:
A - Did not write the Quran or the Bible or any other human scripture
or
B - Wrote this mediocre scripture as a sort of large, unfunny practical joke.
I've never encountered ANY scripture that strikes me as in any way exceptional.
Over the course of many debates, a common apologist argument is to try to deflect criticism of a given religion away from the religion being criticized. Yours is a well worn dodge. I put this in the "hide the ball" category of dodges. So if we can't ascribe any negatives to Islam, then how is it that some people ascribe benefits?
Last edited:
That was a dodge. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?