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Featured Is Christmas Pagan?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

    Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

    I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
     
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  2. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    We celebrate the first recorded case of PMS in history, when Mary rode Joseph's a$$ all the way to Bethlehem.
     
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  3. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    The Church has historically taken in pagan customs because they took in the pagans and their traditions came with them... But maybe it was *meant to be*... why did paganism exist in the first place..? To complete Christianity? Possibly.
     
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  4. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Zoroastrianism, for example, believed in much of the same things that Judaism does. Does that mean that those aspects of Judaism are all of a sudden null and void? Of course not.
     
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  5. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Things are tied together.
     
  6. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Suppose it depends on what you do at Christmas. For me the carols and Midnight Mass are among the best bits, so that's Christian all right. Father Christmas and the tree may have pre-Christian origins but so what?

    It has inspired some great music. Here is Victoria's O Magnum Mysterium, about the Incarnation:



    I have happy memories of singing this when we lived in The Hague, about ten years ago.
     
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  7. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Yes, absolutely in every way besides Jesus. :D

    It's highly unlikely that Jesus was born on the 25th of December either, though admittedly it's an odd date when all of the others are born on the 21st. :D

    Christmas trees - German pagan custom. Mostly associated with Yule. Yule is originating from about the 4th century (as far as we can tell).

    St. Nick/Santa - Ditto really, in fact about 90% of what is "Santa" is pretty much a re-badged Wodan (Odin). Wodan use to visit people with gifts in the midwinter riding his flying steed Sleipnir. This was later transformed into Father Christmas, and in modern times Sinterklaas or Santa Claus (in the west). In most non-American interpretations (aka not the Coke Santa) he still looks a hell of a lot like Wodan.

    Mistletoe - Celtic pagan in origin and associated with fertility. The traditions developed around that and were adopted by Christians later. The Celts didn't "kiss" under the mistletoe, but they thought the plant was sexual in nature.

    Needless to say, pretty silly to think Jesus is the reason for the season, etc.

    Also, many are celebrating winter solstice at the same time.
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Midwinter festivals were celebrated long before the christians got hold of it.

    Considering no one has any idea if and when JC was born i think it was most likely a christian recruitment tactic "you join our club and you dont have to give up your winter party"
     
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  9. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I like the carols and Christmas music and decorations.
     
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  10. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I love this!
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi..... :)
    My wife has no interests in any religion at all, but she loves Christmas time. We put up the lights and decorations today, outside and in. She loves giving cards and presents, and Christmas songs and carols.

    Why? I expect it's because Christmas was imprinted upon her when she was a little girl. That's all fine by me, and I enjoy my wife's enjoyment at this time. :)
     
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  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    We dont do Christmas anymore although its impossible to avoid.

    Over the years we have held many different midwinter festivals, (including christmas). The kids have now decided (for the last 3 years) that we stick just one, Saturnalia... Why? They get presents everyday for a week and for the last day they become household lords.
     
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  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Pagan beliefs predate Christianity...by a lot.
     
  14. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I see your point. That something older cannot complete something newer (it should be the other way around). But I see it more like a uniting... destined from the start.
     
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  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Precisely. Christianity adopted dates and traditions from pagan beliefs and assimilated them into their belief system in order to facilitate conversion to Christianity. The traditions stuck.
     
  16. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I agree. But I think the notion here is that because the traditions were pagan inspired, that they are somehow less worthy. Or that their value is diminished.

    ...Personally I don't see it that way.
     
  17. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I'm of the opinion that commercialization of the holiday has diminished its value far more than pagan inspiration.
     
  18. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    That's probably true.
     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    There's a difference between the actual Christian religious practices and cultural practices outside of that (there's a difference between going to midnight Mass on Christmas Eve and Santa and mistletoe). Anyway, I wouldn't say the religious practice of Christmas is "pagan" but the cultural practices of it may be based in folk practices and such. People make too big a deal over this stuff, both fundies and Neopagans. They both need to just let people enjoy the season.

    Oh, and as to the date, the Orthodox actually celebrate Christmas in January. The Solstice is on the 21st, not the 25th and we don't know why or when the Romans started celebrating the rebirth of the Unconquered Sun on that date. So move on.
     
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  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I do consider Christmas a make over and adaptation of the ancient pagan Winter Solstice holiday, by the way so is the Easter season, and I consider Christian theology to be corrupted by pagan beliefs and in particular Roman pagan beliefs.

    My preference is to celebrate the Winter Solstice as the Winter Solstice celebration.
     
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