• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Christmas Pagan?

Riders

Well-Known Member
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.

The Church has historically taken in pagan customs because they took in the pagans and their traditions came with them... But maybe it was *meant to be*... why did paganism exist in the first place..? To complete Christianity? Possibly.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Zoroastrianism, for example, believed in much of the same things that Judaism does. Does that mean that those aspects of Judaism are all of a sudden null and void? Of course not.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
Suppose it depends on what you do at Christmas. For me the carols and Midnight Mass are among the best bits, so that's Christian all right. Father Christmas and the tree may have pre-Christian origins but so what?

It has inspired some great music. Here is Victoria's O Magnum Mysterium, about the Incarnation:


I have happy memories of singing this when we lived in The Hague, about ten years ago.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.

Yes, absolutely in every way besides Jesus. :D

It's highly unlikely that Jesus was born on the 25th of December either, though admittedly it's an odd date when all of the others are born on the 21st. :D

Christmas trees - German pagan custom. Mostly associated with Yule. Yule is originating from about the 4th century (as far as we can tell).

St. Nick/Santa - Ditto really, in fact about 90% of what is "Santa" is pretty much a re-badged Wodan (Odin). Wodan use to visit people with gifts in the midwinter riding his flying steed Sleipnir. This was later transformed into Father Christmas, and in modern times Sinterklaas or Santa Claus (in the west). In most non-American interpretations (aka not the Coke Santa) he still looks a hell of a lot like Wodan.

Mistletoe - Celtic pagan in origin and associated with fertility. The traditions developed around that and were adopted by Christians later. The Celts didn't "kiss" under the mistletoe, but they thought the plant was sexual in nature.

Needless to say, pretty silly to think Jesus is the reason for the season, etc.

Also, many are celebrating winter solstice at the same time.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Midwinter festivals were celebrated long before the christians got hold of it.

Considering no one has any idea if and when JC was born i think it was most likely a christian recruitment tactic "you join our club and you dont have to give up your winter party"
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.

Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?

I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
Hi..... :)
My wife has no interests in any religion at all, but she loves Christmas time. We put up the lights and decorations today, outside and in. She loves giving cards and presents, and Christmas songs and carols.

Why? I expect it's because Christmas was imprinted upon her when she was a little girl. That's all fine by me, and I enjoy my wife's enjoyment at this time. :)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I like the carols and Christmas music and decorations.

We dont do Christmas anymore although its impossible to avoid.

Over the years we have held many different midwinter festivals, (including christmas). The kids have now decided (for the last 3 years) that we stick just one, Saturnalia... Why? They get presents everyday for a week and for the last day they become household lords.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The Church has historically taken in pagan customs because they took in the pagans and their traditions came with them... But maybe it was *meant to be*... why did paganism exist in the first place..? To complete Christianity? Possibly.

Pagan beliefs predate Christianity...by a lot.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I see your point. That something older cannot complete something newer. But I see it more like a uniting... destined from the start.

Precisely. Christianity adopted dates and traditions from pagan beliefs and assimilated them into their belief system in order to facilitate conversion to Christianity. The traditions stuck.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Precisely. Christianity adopted dates and traditions from pagan beliefs and assimilated them into their belief system in order to facilitate conversion to Christianity. The traditions stuck.

I agree. But I think the notion here is that because the traditions were pagan inspired, that they are somehow less worthy. Or that their value is diminished.

...Personally I don't see it that way.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree. But I think the notion here is that because the traditions were pagan inspired, that they are somehow less worthy. Or that their value is diminished.

...Personally I have no problem with that, because I see tidbits if divine revelations everywhere.

I'm of the opinion that commercialization of the holiday has diminished its value far more than pagan inspiration.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
There's a difference between the actual Christian religious practices and cultural practices outside of that (there's a difference between going to midnight Mass on Christmas Eve and Santa and mistletoe). Anyway, I wouldn't say the religious practice of Christmas is "pagan" but the cultural practices of it may be based in folk practices and such. People make too big a deal over this stuff, both fundies and Neopagans. They both need to just let people enjoy the season.

Oh, and as to the date, the Orthodox actually celebrate Christmas in January. The Solstice is on the 21st, not the 25th and we don't know why or when the Romans started celebrating the rebirth of the Unconquered Sun on that date. So move on.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I do consider Christmas a make over and adaptation of the ancient pagan Winter Solstice holiday, by the way so is the Easter season, and I consider Christian theology to be corrupted by pagan beliefs and in particular Roman pagan beliefs.

My preference is to celebrate the Winter Solstice as the Winter Solstice celebration.
 
Top