1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is Christmas Pagan?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,918
    Ratings:
    +1,192
    Religion:
    Swedenborgianism
    Cause Hippie Jesus was really cool, patient, relaxed, and passive. Whereas, short-haired Jesus was really uptight and knocking over tables? ....:D


    [​IMG]






    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  2. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,940
    Ratings:
    +2,653
    Religion:
    "Post" Christian, likely Deist
    Isn't everything?
     
  3. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +871
    Religion:
    nature
    Christmas is a blend of beliefs including pre-Christian European beliefs. Winter Solstice one of the most important times in the year for many including the northern Europeans which left so many monolithic structures recognizing this event of the year with the return of the sun. Fascinating how Christianity picked this time as 9 months prior would fall on the Imbolic celebration later turned to Candle mass in honor of the virgin Mary then spring equinox with Easter. All important to Pagans of Europe and when used by the Roman Catholic Church give us the perfect Conception and Birth times to coordinate with established celebrations but also to tie in Christs death with the Equinox.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +871
    Religion:
    nature
    It is a lovely holiday blending magic with important celestial events important to the pre-Christians along with symbolisms which derive from many sources. The one think I do not think we know is the real birthday of Jesus.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,408
    Ratings:
    +5,006
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    I do not shame you for not 'liking' (What an understatement!!!) my or any (new?) religion. I am shaming you for your aggressive arrogant attitude, and misrepresentation of what others believe including mine.

    Your kind of selective bout religions you choose to trash. You put a 200 limit, but not an even playing field that all religions were st one time less than 200 years. Well . . . .ah does the Baha'i Faith become suddenly OK in 2044 or 2063?

    Your not acknowledging that I am expressing what I believe versus what I 'like' or condemn as many Christians do concerning those who believe differently. First I do not 'believe' ancient religions are relevant to the contemporary world. It is not a matter of liking nor disliking. Religions like Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and ancient pagan beliefs I simply 'believe' they do not offer a universal message for humanity. They maintain a strong cultural and tribal orientation of ancient societies. Again this is a matter of differences of belief, and not like nor dislike.

    Actually the evidence of history is that much of the rituals, beliefs, and cerimonies of Christianity are not original to testimony of the gospels and not the heritage of Judaism. They are as a matter of fact adopted from pagan and Roman religions. I do not condemn the believers of any religion as many if not most Christians do., but I do not believe Jesus Christ taught this and I do not believe in the polytheism of the ancient religions nor the polytheism adapted by traditional Christianity.

    Monotheism is essentially the belief in only one God that reveals to humanity a Divine message, and by the evidence I consider Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith pure Monotheistic religions, and not Christianity. I do not believe in man Gods, such as the traditional belief of the Trinity in Christianity.
     
    #45 shunyadragon, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  6. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Ratings:
    +2,081
    Religion:
    Living
    I celebrate Yule as a remembrance of the passing of the seasons but have no problem getting another excuse to get together with other friends and family that actually do Christmas for get togethers. A few of the WAGS do the religious aspect according to what they were most likely raised in and one (my brothers wife) that didn't think it was very funny when her miniature baby Jesus was removed from the manger and replaced with a ransom note, the upside was that she blamed him first -then I got the call. She was annoyed but I pretty much got a pass and a warning because she likes me, plus it has made a good holiday around the dinner story for a number of years.

    Merry Christmas!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    8,441
    Ratings:
    +583
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    I agree--as a Messianic, I don't "need" Christmas, but it's a good chance to have fun and get together, while being sensitive to some who have a hard time emotionally/spiritually during the holidays.
     
  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,687
    Ratings:
    +1,439
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love

    everything is pagan eventually. what is old is new again. the modern version of something tends to have no clue of its roots.
     
  9. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,549
    Ratings:
    +1,425
    Religion:
    Hellenic Polytheist
    Is Christmas pagan? How can celebrating the founder of the Christian faith be pagan, especially as he was an Orthodox Jew?

    Over the next two week I've got the monthly festivals of Hekate, Hestia, Asklepios, and Tyche, the annual festival of Poseidon, and the Heliogenna. That's enough for me!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,408
    Ratings:
    +5,006
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Pilgrimage to Greece? Mount Olympus?
     
  11. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,839
    Ratings:
    +1,339
    The reality is that everything in this world is pagan or has some pagan connection, yet Jesus has power over all the earth and heavens, including all things pagan or otherwise, providing redemption.

    I love celebrating Christmas because I love Jesus. I can't think of anything or anyone more worth celebrating than Jesus. His stepping down from heaven, coming to earth and taking on human form to live among humanity, endure the cross, rising again to offer victory over death and new, eternal life is the greatest, most wonderful event to celebrate!
     
  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,288
    Ratings:
    +800
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Pre-Christians didn't celebrate the Nativity of Jesus, thus it wasn't Christmas for them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +871
    Religion:
    nature
    You are correct they had a reverence of the winter solstice. The Nativity of Jesus was placed near the winter Solstice which connected his conception, assuming a normal gestational pregnancy with virgin birth, with the Celtic celebration of Imbolic. Pre-Christian dates of significance thus blending pre-Christian periods of celebration with the Christian celebration thus influence of pre-Christian rituals. You are well informed about this period of time, do we know the actual date of Jesus's birthday - have any clear support for this date? Is there a Jewish association with date we celebrate his birthday or with February 2nd?
     
  14. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,209
    Ratings:
    +13,632
    Religion:
    Germanic Folk Revival
    "Aggressive arrogant attitude"? What a load of hypocrisy. You keep trying to sound "nice" by repeating it's a difference of belief with you and not dislike, but come off it. You obviously dislike these other religions. You say nothing positive about them and but just bash them as beneath you and irrelevant. You just trashed other religions in your very post here.

    But even I can say positive things about Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I can't for Baha'i at the moment, but maybe some day. :rolleyes: My religion, for example, is not universalist because it doesn't pretend that everyone must believe it. Truth and reality is like a diamond with infinite facets; we can all learn from each other. So it is wrong to demand or expect that a person convert to a religion or worldview that their intuition has not naturally led them to. So proselytism is wrong. It is pluralistic, unlike yours which wants everyone to convert to it because it wants to eventually rule the world.

    No, it's not true that Christianity is riddled with ancient pre-Christian beliefs and traditions. That's a load of crap that Protestant fundies and Restorationists buy into and Baha'i probably picked up from its Islamic foundations. It's not historical fact, but polemics. If you really want to get into that debate, go debate @Shiranui117 about it, as he is a lover of ancient Christianity.

    As for new religions, I don't tend to like them because they tend to function like brainwashing cults and are very immature. The ancient religions have been tested for centuries and may have their problems but have a wealth of wisdom and tradition to offer.
     
  15. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,209
    Ratings:
    +13,632
    Religion:
    Germanic Folk Revival
    Imbolc? Christianity started nowhere near the British isles and December 25th, which is not the Solstice, for Christmas was set by the 4th century. I don't see what they have to do with each other.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,965
    Ratings:
    +1,633
    Seems to me people do love Christmas because of family time together.
    That I find that is also true at family reunion times.
    The problem with Christmas is the mixing of the pagan Saturnalia with a non-biblical account about Jesus.
    Even the Nativity scene is inaccurate according to Scripture.
    So, Santa (the god of Christmas) is a lie. Parents are expected to lie to their children about a Santa.
    Jesus was 33 1/2 years old when he died in the Spring month on the Hebrew Calendar of Nisan the 14th day.
    That would mean Jesus would have turned 34 in the Fall or Autumn of the year.
    December 25th was already a festival day in Jesus day.
    The way Jesus and the apostles celebrated it was that they did Not celebrate it.
    Those Jews did Not even party/celebrate a person's birthday.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,965
    Ratings:
    +1,633
    Of course it's fun and get together, who would celebrate if Christmas meant poking yourself with pins all day.
     
  18. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    28,209
    Ratings:
    +13,632
    Religion:
    Germanic Folk Revival
    Christmas and Saturnalia have nothing to do with each other.
    But lying to them about Noah's Ark, talking snakes, corpses coming back to life, virgin births, etc. is fine?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,965
    Ratings:
    +1,633
    In Scripture Jesus was 33 1/2 years old when he died.
    The date on the Jewish calendar for Jesus' death was the Spring month of Nisan. Nisan the 14th day.
    That means Jesus would have turned 34 in the Fall or Autumn months of September/ October.
    I find this means No way is there a connection to Ground Hogs Day of February 2nd.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,965
    Ratings:
    +1,633
    I agree Christmas and the Saturnalia / Winter Solstice,etc. have nothing to do with each other.

    What the Bible teaches is an account of Noah's Ark, the Genesis ' snake in the grass ' was Satan, there are No corpses coming back to life (zombies) but healthy physical resurrections, plus one, only one, virgin birth.
    So, it is Not lying about what the Bible really teaches. Bible does Not teach Christmas.

    Take any book and if one tells something about the book that is Not in the book that is in error.
    Telling something about the Bible that is Not in the Bible that is in error.
     
Loading...