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Is Bahai a real faith?

I dont believe Bahai is a faith!...its just my opinion!
I beleive its made up.I dont get it.How does baha ullah say that his a prophet while he has told ppl that his Mahdi(as) "baab" before.its a little bit confusing for me.
Am i right or i have mixed bahai by another faith?!
Sorry 4 the mistakes
and cheers!
 

arthra

Baha'i
time_spender said:
I dont believe Bahai is a faith!...its just my opinion!
I beleive its made up.I dont get it.How does baha ullah say that his a prophet while he has told ppl that his Mahdi(as) "baab" before.its a little bit confusing for me.
Am i right or i have mixed bahai by another faith?!
Sorry 4 the mistakes
and cheers!

How would you define a "faith"?

What you could do is study the history of Baha'i Faith for yourself and arive at your own conclusions..

In Persia after the Bab declared His mission in 1844
the Babis were massacred ...estimates are as high as twenty thousand believers. The Bab was executred in 1850 in Tabriz but He promised there would follow Him "Him Whom God would make manifest".

I would say Baha'i Faith began as a revelation experienced by Baha'u'llah as He lay in galling chains in the darkness of the Siyyah Chal prison in Teheran awaiting execution.

After release His family was exiled to Bagdad and He was retreat for some years... Later He was exiled to Istanbul...but on the way revealed His station on an island in the Tigris River to His followers that He was "Him Whom God would make manifest" prophesied y the Bab, this was in 1863.

So through persecution, imprisonment and exile Baha'u'llah was eventually sent to Akka in what is today Israel...

In spite of persecutions from the most powerful Sultan of the OIttoman Empire and the Shah of Persia, Baha'u'llah survived.

Attempts (such as poisonings, assasinations) were made to kill Him many times failed and His followers imprisoned in Iran today, the Faith survived...

All this takes a lot of Faith!

- Art
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It has a charismatic divine founder. It has a body of holy works written by the founder. It has miracles. It has ritual. It has formal doctrine and dogma. It has churches and a body of the faithful.

How is it not a religion?

What does Islam have, time_spender, that Baha'i does not?
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
time_spender said:
I dont believe Bahai is a faith!...its just my opinion!
I beleive its made up.I dont get it.
are you saying you don't believe its a faith because you think its made up, or because you don't understand it?

How does baha ullah say that his a prophet while he has told ppl that his Mahdi(as) "baab" before.its a little bit confusing for me.
Am i right or i have mixed bahai by another faith?!
i do not know, because i know very little about the Bahai faith
Sorry 4 the mistakes
and cheers!
which mistake would that be, mistaking anothers beliefs for a work of fantasy, or the mistake of not understanding?

as far as i am concerned, bahai is a faith, jsut like christianity, judaism, hinduism, islam, paganism, sikhis, and every other faith out there
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Agreed Mike182.

From what little I know about the Bahai faith, it does have all the hallmarks of a religion.
I do find a lot of interest in Bahai, but a lot leaves me a bit confused. Still, a valid religion, for sure. Certainly every bit as valid as Islam or Christianity, et al.
 

maggie2

Active Member
Is Islam a real religion? Of course. So why wouldn't Baha'i be a real faith? It's just as much a religion as any other.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Buttons* said:
Allah? Muhammad?
i know you asked him and not me... but i had to say it... sorry
Allah? Muhammad? ------ Baha'u'llah?, the Bab?

Baha'i believes in Allah just as strongly as Islam.

If you dismiss anything that doesn't assert that there is One God and that Muhammad is His prophet, You are making a case that there are no other religions in the world but Islam.

Is this your contention?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
time_spender said:
I dont believe Bahai is a faith!...its just my opinion!
I beleive its made up.I dont get it.How does baha ullah say that his a prophet while he has told ppl that his Mahdi(as) "baab" before.its a little bit confusing for me.
Am i right or i have mixed bahai by another faith?!
Sorry 4 the mistakes
and cheers!
The Bab was Siyyid Ali Muhammed al Shirazi, born 1819 in Shiraz. Baha`u'llah was Mirza Husayn Ali al Nuri, born 1817.

Most of the writings of the Bab dealt with the immediate appearance of He Whom God Will Make Manifest. Mirza Husayn Ali al Nuri was one of the Bab's illustrious followers until 1863 when He announced that He was, indeed, He WHom God Would Make Manifest. The followers of the Bab with a tiny fraction left behind became Baha`i's between 1863 and 1890.

I would suggest that you check out www.bahai.org first, then you can cruise the anti-Bahai web sites if you must and refer your questions here or study for yourself at www.bahai.org .

Another good place to check out is right here in the Abrahamic Discussion folder, under Baha`i Faith, <What prophets do Baha`is recognize> for a fairly long discussion between "The Truth" and myself and others about the claims of Baha`u'llah and the Bab and Their relationship to Shi'ih Islam.

Remember Muhammed recognizes that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were Apostles of God and their followers are worshippers of Allah, I can show Qur'an quotations and Hadith to confirm that. The Bab and Baha`u'llah recognize that all those were Apostles of God as was Muhammed (pbuh). If the relationship of the Bab to Baha`u'llah confuses you remember that John (Yahya) the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus. THe Bab is the forerunner of Baha`u'llah, except He was also the bearer of a revelation revealed in His own book.

Regards,
Scott
 
salam and greetings!
Oh ok!! i just said: this is my opinion" and sure i have reasons for it!
popeyesays:
The Bab was Siyyid Ali Muhammed al Shirazi
So his name is Siyyid Ali Muhammad!!!!
that means he believes in Mohammad,Ali and aslo his seyyed(from the ahlul bayt family)!
1-he has a islamic name
2-he believes n both prophet and imam
3-he accepts quran---->he accepts that the prophethood finishes with Moahammad(AS)
4-he says that his a prophet!!

the stage 3 and 4 denies eachother!!
Buttons*:
Allah? Muhammad?
i know you asked him and not me... but i had to say it... sorry
Ye exactly...it has a lord and a finishin messenger!
Now...if your bahaulla is a prophet then why does he deny Mohammad?
Siyyid Ali Muhammed says that Mohammad abdul Allah is not a prophet...it sounds funny!
+ i believe that bahai is a political faith...so its not a faith...a faith is a way that u choose to get near to God...in religions vali is important (vali=a person that shows u the way by the power of lord)
now..tell me.who is ur vali?
I will write more inshAllah
Sorry 4 the english mistakes
Cheers
~mohammad
 
ok!now i have time 2 continue:

Seyorni:
Allah? Muhammad? ------ Baha'u'llah?, the Bab?
Baha'i believes in Allah just as strongly as Islam.
If you dismiss anything that doesn't assert that there is One God and that Muhammad is His prophet, You are making a case that there are no other religions in the world but Islam.
Is this your contention?
i should answer no!
Muslims have definitions for a real believer:
1-he must believe in One and only one God.this is the important case
that is because the most simple fact :humans must understand that they have a creator and he created them.Who ever denies this part, has lost his life. He has found the goal wrong and must be punished (God will ask him why he didnt use his head and see million of signs he created)
Islam learns us that Allah will forgive any sin we do (IF he wants) except the sin of becoming pagan..this sin has a reward!! the reward is fire and its fair!
2-he must believe in holy sent prophets.
denying prophethood is near too denying God but it has less punishment when compared with the firt case
So believing in a false prophet makes u a pagan in Islamic view.
when u cant handle the next step, and recognize a false prophet from a real one then u deserve chatstiesment. Thats fair 2!
3-do good.This is the most important thing after believeing in God!
U must Do something so punishment or encourage becomes defined!
the major part of ur journey after death will be ruled by this part!

so to muslims we call these ppl a believer:
A muslim,a christian, a jew, a zoroastrian and any group that its prophet says:WE HAVE ONE CREATOR!
we call them brother and sister. sure holy God sent:162:
and i,m really happy to see them doing their job in RF!:)MAy God bless them.

maggie2:
Is Islam a real religion? Of course. So why wouldn't Baha'i be a real faith? It's just as much a religion as any other
i dont believe in pluralism.
If there is one God then there is a defined manner to reach him.
Any belief that steps out the limited area is not a religion.for me,its obvious:D !
There are hundreds of religions that step out the serious area and they can simply be called "a non-religious religion!!!"
MAggie, i cant deny my principals.They are clear and they show me the truth!
If u wanna put a gun on my head and say "accept bahaism" then nothing happens!
I have fixed definitions for calling someone a religious person. ok?
(sorry for all the nonsense sentences i have made!!)

and here i paste a paragraph and finish my words:
One theme that is common among most religions is the promise of redemption, renewal of religion and salvation, through the coming of a Promised One, to "fill earth with justice as it has been filled with tyranny", (or in Christian terminology, to establish God's Kingdom on earth, as it is in heaven). Each group has called this Promised One by a different name: "Al- Mahdi" (the Guided One), "Al-Qa'im" (the One who Rises), "Sahibul Zaman" (Lord of the Age), Lord of Hosts. Muslims are also promised the return of Jesus (PBUH), as do Christians also await the second coming of Christ. Other religions also await their own Promised One, Whom they know by other different names.

All religions also, warn of false prophets. They warn of the "Dajjal" (the Liar, the one who misguides). They warn of the anti-christ.

So how does one distinguish between the truth and falsehood? Are we left on our own to find out? Would it be better to play it safe and reject all claimants?

What should be obvious is that, the very fact that we are warned of false prophets, should tell us that the True One is surely to come, (albeit it would not be easy to recognize Him). Otherwise, if we weren't admonished to believe in such glad tidings, or if the signs and proofs were to be so clear and obvious, the false ones wouldn't think that they had a chance to impersonate Him falsely. They wouldn't even try, because we would not be expecting anyone to come in the first place.

God says that as long as we make an effort to seek His guidance, His mercy will protect us from being misguided by others:

"And (as for) those who strive hard for Us, We will most certainly guide them in Our ways; and Allah is most surely with the doers of good."
- Qur'an 29:69

When Christ warned His disciples about false prophets, He (PBUH) also provided them with a criterion to help them distinguish between the truth and the sayings of those false prophets:

"Beware of false prophets ... Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
(Matt. 7:15-20)

Similarly, we see in the Holy Qur'an:

"Seest thou not to what God likeneth a good word? To a good tree; its root firmly fixed, and its branches reaching unto heaven: yielding its fruit in all seasons."
- Qur'an 14:24
Cheers
and long live believers in one God,whatever they call him
P.S. I,m off for a week(I,m going to a holy trip inshAllah(If God wants).Please dont forget me in ur prayers. whenever ur tears comes out remember me 2 :) ThanX)
~mohammad
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I just noticed you are Iranian, and a Shi'ite. You are aware of course that Iran is the birthplace of the Baha`i Faith, it is also the land where the greatest persecution and atrocities against the Baha`i Faith have been perpetrated.
Between 1850 and 1853 approximately 20,000 Bab'i's were slaughtered in that country for their faith. Baha`u'llah was arrested and released because the Czar of Russia instructed his ambassadors to see to it that if no charges against him could be established He must be released. Baha`u'llah was exiled first to Baghdad, then in 1863 exiled further to Constantinople, Adrianople, Edirne and finaly Akka, the most foul Turkish prison city in the world (located in Palestine at the time, modern-day Israel near Haifa today).

Today in Iran, the Baha`i Faith has been victim of persecutions since the 1850's. Today the persecution continues under the Islamic Republic - the administration of the faith is banned in Iran, gathering to worship as Baha`i's is forbidden. More than 250 Baha'i's have been convicted on trumped charges around their fatih and executed, killed by mobs or assassins, and many more are dying in prison even today in violation of UN standards of treatment of religious minorities. Baha`i's are denied employment because of their faith. Baha`i's are denied the pensions they earned in the previous government in Iran, even though Muslims, Christians, Parsees, Jews, Sabians are allowed their pensions.
Children have been taken from Baha`i parents because Baha`i weddings are not legally recognized. No Baha`i student may attend higher education in Iran unless he claims to be muslim, Christian, Jew, Parsee or Sabian - and Baha`i's are not allowed to deny their faith even when threatened with death which Shi'ites do routinely - the practice is called taqiyyih, I am sure you are familiar with it.

Despite the persecutions in its homeland, the Baha`i Faith has spread to every country on the face of the earth - from about 20,000 believers in 1892 (the passing of Baha`u'llah) it has increased to approximately 7,000,000 - its sacred texts published more than 150 languages around the globe.

To most observers the success of the faith, in the face of deadly oppression in a large part of the world is proof enough of its validity as a religion.




time_spender said:
salam and greetings!
Oh ok!! i just said: this is my opinion" and sure i have reasons for it!
popeyesays:
So his name is Siyyid Ali Muhammad!!!!
that means he believes in Mohammad,Ali and aslo his seyyed(from the ahlul bayt family)!
1-he has a islamic name
2-he believes n both prophet and imam
3-he accepts quran---->he accepts that the prophethood finishes with Moahammad(AS)
4-he says that his a prophet!!

the stage 3 and 4 denies eachother!!
Buttons*:
Ye exactly...it has a lord and a finishin messenger!
Now...if your bahaulla is a prophet then why does he deny Mohammad?
Siyyid Ali Muhammed says that Mohammad abdul Allah is not a prophet...it sounds funny!
+ i believe that bahai is a political faith...so its not a faith...a faith is a way that u choose to get near to God...in religions vali is important (vali=a person that shows u the way by the power of lord)
now..tell me.who is ur vali?
My friend, of course you believe it is a political faith. That has been the propaganda against the faith since the time of the Bab. The Bab - in the imaginations of the Shah and the mullahin (Islamic clerical authorities) - was perceived as a threat to the political, social and economic power of the establishment. It was never that. The Bab was the Mahdi, the Qa'im - the purpose of both stations was to purify Islam.

Your attitude and political slant makes you part of the active persecution of a faith that has resulted in tens of thousand of deaths, and a clear attempt to eradicate the revelation of Baha`u'llah. My, friend it has not worked. It will not work in the future, and when change finally comes to the land of Ta, it is your rebellion against the religion of God that will drive all your strategies to naught and wipe you from the pages of history.

Now that we have spoken plainly with one another, If you do have a question or claim, I will be happy to deal with it in specific terms.

How much regards should I have?,

Scott

"Thy vision is obscured by the belief that divine revelation ended with the coming of Muhammad, and unto this We have borne witness in Our first epistle. Indeed, He Who hath revealed verses unto Muhammad, the Apostle of God, hath likewise revealed verses unto Ali-Muhammad. For who else but God can reveal to a man such clear and manifest verses as overpower all the learned? Since thou hast acknowledged the revelation of Muhammad, the Apostle of God, then there is no other way open before thee but to testify that whatever is revealed by the Primal Point hath also proceeded from God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Is it not true that the Qur'án hath been sent down from God and that all men are powerless before its revelation? Likewise these words have also been revealed by God, if thou dost but perceive. What is there in the Bayan which keepeth thee back from recognizing these verses as being sent forth by God, the Inaccessible, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious?"
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 31)
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
time_spender said:
salam and greetings!
Oh ok!! i just said: this is my opinion" and sure i have reasons for it!
popeyesays:
So his name is Siyyid Ali Muhammad!!!!
that means he believes in Mohammad,Ali and aslo his seyyed(from the ahlul bayt family)!
1-he has a islamic name
2-he believes n both prophet and imam
3-he accepts quran---->he accepts that the prophethood finishes with Moahammad(AS)
4-he says that his a prophet!!

the stage 3 and 4 denies eachother!!
Buttons*:
Ye exactly...it has a lord and a finishin messenger!
Now...if your bahaulla is a prophet then why does he deny Mohammad?
Siyyid Ali Muhammed says that Mohammad abdul Allah is not a prophet...it sounds funny!
+ i believe that bahai is a political faith...so its not a faith...a faith is a way that u choose to get near to God...in religions vali is important (vali=a person that shows u the way by the power of lord)
now..tell me.who is ur vali?
I will write more inshAllah
Sorry 4 the english mistakes
Cheers
~mohammad
Its probably useless to tell you that you are badly mistaken on what the claims of Baha`u'llah might be.

Does Baha`u'llah deny Muhammed? Where did you get that idea? Certainly not from anything that Baha`u'llah ever wrote or said. You are looking in the strongly anti-Baha`i websites and cutting and pasting what they tell you, even when they have never really made any study of Baha`u'llah's words.

I will give you three quotes at a time for what Baha`u'llah SAYS about Muhammed and you tell me where those words are a denial of Muhammed as an APostle of God:

"PERUSED ye not the Qur'án? Read it, that haply ye may find the Truth, for this Book is verily the Straight Path. This is the Way of God unto all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. If ye have been careless of the Qur'án, the Bayan cannot be regarded to be remote from you. Behold it open before your eyes. Read ye its verses, lest perchance ye desist from committing that which will cause the Messengers of God to mourn and lament."
(Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 97)

"For this reason did Muhammad cry out: "No Prophet of God hath suffered such harm as I have suffered." And in the Qur'án are recorded all the calumnies and reproaches uttered against Him, as well as all the afflictions which He suffered. Refer ye thereunto, that haply ye may be informed of that which hath befallen His Revelation. So grievous was His plight, that for a time all ceased to hold intercourse with Him and His companions. Whoever associated with Him fell a victim to the relentless cruelty of His enemies."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 109)

"Then wilt thou comprehend the inner meaning of sovereignty and the like, spoken of in the traditions and scriptures. Furthermore, it is already evident and known unto thee that those things to which the Jews and the Christians have clung, and the cavilings which they heaped upon the Beauty of Muhammad, the same have in this day been upheld by the people of the Qur'án, and been witnessed in their denunciations of the "Point of the Bayan" -- may the souls of all that dwell within the kingdom of divine Revelations be a sacrifice unto Him! Behold their folly: they utter the self-same words, uttered by the Jews of old, and know it not!"
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 134)

You are stumbling on the single verse of the Qur'an where Muhammed says He is the Seal of the Prophets.

He IS the "Seal of the Prophets". But the Arabic word used in the Qur'an is "khataam", not "khatim". "Khataam" means - the signet ring, the warrantor of the authenticity of a document. Muhammed possessed such a ring for sealing documents, and that seal guaranteed that the document was from the hand of Muhammed.

Muhammed guarantees that Moses was an Apostle of God, and His Book is from God. Muhammed is the "Seal" which guarantees Jesus and the authenticity of the Injeel (Gospel). Muhammed promised the Mahdi. In SHi'ih Islam it is understood that He promises the Qa'im and the Quayyum. He refers to these as "trumpet blasts" in the Qur'an:
Surah 79: Those Who Drag Foth
"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
By those angels who drag forth souls with violence,
And by those who with joyous release release them;
By those who swim swimmingly along;
By those who are foremost with foremost speed;
By those who conduct the affairs of the universe!
One day, the disturbing trumpet-blast shall disturb it,
Which the second blast shall follow:
Men's hearts on that day shall quake: -
Their looks be downcast.
79:10 The infidels will say, "Shall we indeed be restored as at first?
What! when we have become rotten bones?"
"This then," say they, "will be a return to loss."
Verily, it will be but a single blast,
And lo! they are on the surface of the earth.
Hath the story of Moses reached thee?
When his lord called to him in Towa's holy vale:
Go to Pharaoh, for he hath burst all bounds:
And say: "Wouldest thou become just?
Then I will guide thee to thy Lord that thou mayest fear him."
79:20 And he showed him a great miracle, -
But he treated him as an impostor, and rebelled;
Then turned he his back all hastily,
And gathered an assembly and proclaimed,
And said, "I am your Lord supreme."
So God visited on him the punishment of this life and of the other.
Verily, herein is a lesson for him who hath the fear of God.
Are ye the harder to create, or the heaven which he hath built?
He reared its height and fashioned it,
And gave darkness to its night, and brought out its light,
79:30 And afterwards stretched forth the earth, -
He brought forth from it its waters and its pastures;
And set the mountains firm
For you and your cattle to enjoy.
But when the grand overthrow shall come,
The day when a man shall reflect on the pains that he hath taken,
And Hell shall be in full view of all who are looking on;
Then, as for him who hath transgressed
And hath chosen this present life,
Verily, Hell - that shall be his dwelling-place:
79:40 But as to him who shall have feared the majesty of his Lord, and
shall have refrained his soul form lust,
Verily, Paradise - that shall be his dwelling-place.
They will ask thee of "the Hour," when will be its fixed time?
But what knowledge hast thou of it?
Its period is known only to thy Lord;
And thou art only charged with the warning of those who fear it.
On the day when they shall see it, it shall seem to them as though they
had not tarried in the tomb, longer than its evening or its morn."

The Bab is the first blast upon the trumpet. Baha`u'llah is the second. In that day all the peoples of the earth faced judgement and continue to do so to this day. Those who live in the Lord are those who accept the claim of Baha`u'llah in the end. Those who do not follow, do not live in the Lord. Just as in the day of Muhammed when He burst forth from the heavens and made His claim - men were weeded through to find the living in that day, too.

Regards,
Scott
 
Now that we have spoken plainly with one another, If you do have a question or claim, I will be happy to deal with it in specific terms.
How much regards should I have?,


Ok.Thanx for ur regards! I have alots of questions so i'll ask!

The Bab was the Mahdi, the Qa'im - the purpose of both stations was to purify Islam.


I dont believe in that.MAhdi can not be the Bab!Is he still alive? Did he kill all the cruelty in

the world? certainly not!
So for my first question:how do u proove that Bab is the saviour????


my second question:How can u proove that BAb isnt a false prophet?


You are stumbling on the single verse of the Qur'an where Muhammed says He is the Seal of the Prophets.

He IS the "Seal of the Prophets". But the Arabic word used in the Qur'an is "khataam", not "khatim". "Khataam" means - the signet ring, the warrantor of the authenticity of a document. Muhammed possessed such a ring for sealing documents, and that seal guaranteed that the document was from the

hand of Muhammed.
I,m sorry.ur evidences doesnt satisfy me.
i deny ur assumption by asking my third question:
3-in Quran we have "tamat kalemato rabeka..."
In quran we have a clear verse that finishes the prophethood
it says that ur God's help(words of the quran) finished truthfully and complete
I dont know the address of the verse but what do u have 2 say about it>?
Muhammed promised the Mahdi
Yes.But listen to thsi: i can stand up and say i,m Mahdi and then write a book and make a religion call YAzdi'ism! i can use beautiful words that i have leant from islam and enter my own beliefs in it and make a big religion!
And after a century i will have 7000000 followers and they can proove that i,m mahdi because i have deceived many ppl...does that proove that i,m Mahdi????? isnt it clear that there will be many false mahdis before the real one comes???


I finish my words here.
but there are hundreds of question in my mind that if u give them an answer i will become a bahai!!

Sorry for the english mistakes!;)
cheers
~Mohammad
 

Ody

Well-Known Member
arthra said:
How would you define a "faith"?

What you could do is study the history of Baha'i Faith for yourself and arive at your own conclusions..

In Persia after the Bab declared His mission in 1844
the Babis were massacred ...estimates are as high as twenty thousand believers. The Bab was executred in 1850 in Tabriz but He promised there would follow Him "Him Whom God would make manifest".

I would say Baha'i Faith began as a revelation experienced by Baha'u'llah as He lay in galling chains in the darkness of the Siyyah Chal prison in Teheran awaiting execution.

After release His family was exiled to Bagdad and He was retreat for some years... Later He was exiled to Istanbul...but on the way revealed His station on an island in the Tigris River to His followers that He was "Him Whom God would make manifest" prophesied y the Bab, this was in 1863.

So through persecution, imprisonment and exile Baha'u'llah was eventually sent to Akka in what is today Israel...

In spite of persecutions from the most powerful Sultan of the OIttoman Empire and the Shah of Persia, Baha'u'llah survived.

Attempts (such as poisonings, assasinations) were made to kill Him many times failed and His followers imprisoned in Iran today, the Faith survived...

All this takes a lot of Faith!

- Art
Im glad to see a man of your religion speak out against misconceptions its a major problem
 

arthra

Baha'i
You know "Time_spender" you are perfectly free to be a Muslim and not accept Baha'i Faith and you can ask any questions you wish here on this Religious Forums internet site...

but please consider this, that in places where the Baha'i Faith is illegal the same freedom you enjoy as a Muslim is being denied to Baha'is. Baha'i marriages are illegal and Baha'i properties have been seized and destroyed in Iran and other Muslim countries.

If there is to be "no compulsion in religion" as revealed in the Holy Qur'an why is Baha'i Faith outlawed and basic human rights denied the Baha'is?

- Art
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
time_spender said:
Ok.Thanx for ur regards! I have alots of questions so i'll ask!



I dont believe in that.MAhdi can not be the Bab!Is he still alive? Did he kill all the cruelty in

the world? certainly not!
So for my first question:how do u proove that Bab is the saviour????


my second question:How can u proove that BAb isnt a false prophet?


I,m sorry.ur evidences doesnt satisfy me.
i deny ur assumption by asking my third question:
3-in Quran we have "tamat kalemato rabeka..."
In quran we have a clear verse that finishes the prophethood
it says that ur God's help(words of the quran) finished truthfully and complete
I dont know the address of the verse but what do u have 2 say about it>?
Muhammed promised the Mahdi
Yes.But listen to thsi: i can stand up and say i,m Mahdi and then write a book and make a religion call YAzdi'ism! i can use beautiful words that i have leant from islam and enter my own beliefs in it and make a big religion!
And after a century i will have 7000000 followers and they can proove that i,m mahdi because i have deceived many ppl...does that proove that i,m Mahdi????? isnt it clear that there will be many false mahdis before the real one comes???

I finish my words here.
but there are hundreds of question in my mind that if u give them an answer i will become a bahai!!

Sorry for the english mistakes!;)
cheers
~Mohammad
1) Did Muhammed kill all the cruelty in the world? Did Jesus? Did Abraham, Moses, Zarathustra. Noah, Krsna, Buddha? Of course not, they charge US with doing away with cruelty in our hearts so that cruelty in the world will die.

2) How do you prove Muhammed was an Apostle of God? Or Jesus? or Moses? When you can do that I'll use the same method to prove the reality of the Bab and Baha`u'llah.

3) How can you prove that Muhammed is not a false Prophet - there are, as you must be aware, many Christians who would say the same thing of the Qur'an and its Prophet. You must follow the guidance of Isa in the Injeel and test Them by the fruits of Their revelation. How can you judge the words of the Bab and Baha`u'llah when you are ignorant of them?

4) When you can cite your words from the Qur'an, I will comment, until then I cannot know where to look to read in context. The Bible ends with the words in the Revelation warning us not to add to or subtract from the words in the book, yet there are many Christians who will tell you that Muhammed does just that - adds to the words of the Bible. How do you face that question? When you answer it, I will be able to use the same method to answer your question.

5) The Bab often said to His persecutors that His BOOK was the proof of His Revelation and if any of those who accused Him could provide a single verse with the same majesty, then they should do so. None offered. When Muhammed had His first vision of Gabriel the only believer He had was Kadijah, within a hundred years of that event, how many Muslims were there?

6) I do not attempt to change your mind or faith. My words and your words can never have that effect, it is God Who chooses whom to bring near or send away.

You said my faith was "political" rather than spiritual. Can you amplify that argument or are you just quoting what you have heard all your life like a parrot?

Regards,
Scott
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Popeyesays said:
You are stumbling on the single verse of the Qur'an where Muhammed says He is the Seal of the Prophets.

He IS the "Seal of the Prophets". But the Arabic word used in the Qur'an is "khataam", not "khatim". "Khataam" means - the signet ring, the warrantor of the authenticity of a document. Muhammed possessed such a ring for sealing documents, and that seal guaranteed that the document was from the hand of Muhammed.
Brother i resepct you so much and i respect what you believe in as well but you can't claim such a thing without any evidence and i talked with you about it before if you still remember that thread. I have proofs from Quran and Sunnah but you are trying to make it as the way you wanted it to be without any evidence.


One day, the disturbing trumpet-blast shall disturb it,
Which the second blast shall follow:

The Bab is the first blast upon the trumpet. Baha`u'llah is the second. In that day all the peoples of the earth faced judgement and continue to do so to this day. Those who live in the Lord are those who accept the claim of Baha`u'llah in the end. Those who do not follow, do not live in the Lord. Just as in the day of Muhammed when He burst forth from the heavens and made His claim - men were weeded through to find the living in that day, too.
Brother, i'm aware of your knowlege and experince but i believe that you do not depend in the authrised Tafseer like ibn-katheer, al-jalaleen, al-tabari and al-qurtobi as well when you explain the verses.

Ibn abbas "known as translator of the Quran" said that the first blast is when all people die at the end of the life and the second one when all people raise from the dead to be judged. Other scholars said also it's in the hereafter but it might be when the earth and the mountains shake and the second one when they become "dakaton wahida".
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Popeyesays said:
2) How do you prove Muhammed was an Apostle of God? Or Jesus? or Moses? When you can do that I'll use the same method to prove the reality of the Bab and Baha`u'llah.
- All of them did miracles, contact with God whether to recieve revlation or to speak to him directly. Also, their people saw these miracles.

- all of them have a valid scripture from Allah and it confirm the one before.


3) How can you prove that Muhammed is not a false Prophet - there are, as you must be aware, many Christians who would say the same thing of the Qur'an and its Prophet. You must follow the guidance of Isa in the Injeel and test Them by the fruits of Their revelation. How can you judge the words of the Bab and Baha`u'llah when you are ignorant of them?
excatly, we must read before we judge.


4) When you can cite your words from the Qur'an, I will comment, until then I cannot know where to look to read in context. The Bible ends with the words in the Revelation warning us not to add to or subtract from the words in the book, yet there are many Christians who will tell you that Muhammed does just that - adds to the words of the Bible. How do you face that question? When you answer it, I will be able to use the same method to answer your question.
I'll answer this brother Popey,

Allah said:

[44] It was We who revealed the Law (to Musa): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the Prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's Will, by the Rabbis and the Doctors of Law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My Signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.


[45] We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers.

[46] And in their footsteps We sent 'Isa the son of Maryam, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.


[47] Let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

[48] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Open Way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single People, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you; so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;


5) The Bab often said to His persecutors that His BOOK was the proof of His Revelation and if any of those who accused Him could provide a single verse with the same majesty, then they should do so. None offered. When Muhammed had His first vision of Gabriel the only believer He had was Kadijah, within a hundred years of that event, how many Muslims were there?
Prophet Mohammed said: Today i have finished my duty, and i accepted Islam as a religion for you. (This how i could translate the arabic one so sorry if i didn't translate it in proper way).
 
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