Is Abstinence From Sex Before Marriage Really Best?

[SoyLeche]

Try using terminlogy that isn't so broad....again.
Maybe you would like to expand on what "a lot of that would go away" is refering to specifically.

A lot of the issues with people wanting to do things that their partner doesn't want to do. Unless doing it "doggy style" has come up in pictures, books, conversation, etc - it is unlikely that one partner will want to try it, and even if they do, it won't likely be devastating if the other partner is uncomfortable with it.

 

[Mister_T]

Oh by the way Mister_T, it doesn't imply you had a weak relationship; it implies you have a weak mind.

It implies both from what I can see. If your marriage is "ruined" from porn it goes deeper than weak minds.

 

[SoyLeche]

As to what I'm implying, I'm saying that "X" should not be taken away or condemned because it affects a few people.

How many people does it need to affect before it should be condemned?

 

[Mister_T]

Well, since I went to the trouble to describe the way I was using the term, the polite thing to do would be either just go with it, or define the way you are using the term before making the critique.

*Note to self: Be more polite*

 

[SoyLeche]

It implies both from what I can see. If your marriage is "ruined" from porn it goes deeper than weak minds.

The same can be said for marriages that are "ruined" by "sexual incompatability".

 

[Mister_T]

How many people does it need to affect before it should be condemned?

Why condemn it at all? It's not the gun's fault that somebody was killed, it's the pshyco pulling the trigger.

If it's going to have an effect on you, don't do it. If it's not going to have the same effect on someone else, don't try and force them not to do it or condem them for choosing to do so.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

........As to what I'm implying, I'm saying that "X" should not be taken away or condemned because it affects a few people.

Heh heh heh..........don't you mean "XXX"?




Peace,
Mystic

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why condemn it at all? It's not the gun's fault that somebody was killed, it's the pshyco pulling the trigger.

If it's going to have an effect on you, don't do it. If it's not going to have the same effect on someone else, don't try and force them not to do it or condem them for choosing to do so.

True, but if the gun did not exist, the psyho could not have pulled the trigger. Without a gun, the psycho is unarmed and inable to kill someone rather effortlessly. The person killed may have been able to defend themselves in ways that are impossible when a gun is in the situation.

Likewise, by analogy nuclear weapons should not exist. There is no reason to use such a weapon in war because it completely defies the purposes of war: to kill one's enemy and use their resources. In a nuclear strike, one's enemy's are killed, the resources are completely destroyed, and civilians are killed and people keep dying from radiation poisoning long after the war is over. If it didn't exist, we would not to need to fear its usage in total annihilation.

 

[SoyLeche]

Why condemn it at all? It's not the gun's fault that somebody was killed, it's the pshyco pulling the trigger.

If it's going to have an effect on you, don't do it. If it's not going to have the same effect on someone else, don't try and force them not to do it or condem them for choosing to do so.

For the record - I am not here to say that all pornography should be banned. I think it would be wonderful if everyone just stopped watching it, but I know that isn't going to happen. All I'm saying is that pornography* has an effect on whether or not a couple thinks they are "sexually incompatible". Avoiding pornography, IMO, would do more to aleviate the problems of "sexual incompatability" than test driving your partner would.

*remember, I'm using an unorthodox definition of this word

 

[Quiddity]

Hey, compadre. You like my new attempts of mindfulness in my spacings? =D

Loved it, comadre!

Some people can't, but some can maintain a proper perspective. I'm also not sure I'm following you with how it can cheapen relationships.

You ever heard the term "wam bam thank you mam"?

Well, essentially what it [porn] has a tendecy of doing is turn a relationship into "i'm here to serve" to "you better serve me". It's really a "state" you can get into that can almost be subconscious at times. It's hard for me to describe because it was a mixture of thoughts and my perception that altered how I responded to things. Not always, but I can tell it tried to take control of me at times. Don't know if that helped....

Only according to Freud. When speaking of the mind, I'm speaking from the perspective of a Buddhist. I'm sorry for confusing you.

It's ok, as long as you understand that I make no such distinction. All of our thoughts and desires lie in one place.

 

[Quiddity]

Sorry again. I didn't mean to make it seem like a generalization. I know every situation is not going to be the same. I was just providing a situation where porn hasn't ruined a relationship.

That's fine. If that works for you, then surely you don't need my permission. I'm just trying to layout some emperical information that it does indeed hurt marriages, relationships, children, etc.

As to what I'm implying, I'm saying that "X" should not be taken away or condemned because it affects a few people.

A few? Let's disagree on that. You'd be surprised just how much sex was connected to all sorts of criminal behaivor.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

True, but if the gun did not exist, the psyho could not have pulled the trigger. Without a gun, the psycho is unarmed and inable to kill someone rather effortlessly. The person killed may have been able to defend themselves in ways that are impossible when a gun is in the situation.

Likewise, by analogy nuclear weapons should not exist. There is no reason to use such a weapon in war because it completely defies the purposes of war: to kill one's enemy and use their resources. In a nuclear strike, one's enemy's are killed, the resources are completely destroyed, and civilians are killed and people keep dying from radiation poisoning long after the war is over. If it didn't exist, we would not to need to fear its usage in total annihilation.

Oops.........too bad Nick walked into that one. I honestly don't see any relevance when comparing gun ownership to porn distribution, but that's only because I don't equate porn with guns in the first place.

Porn is sexual imagery depicting male-dominance. Nothing more. How demonized would it be if there were sexual imagery where women were depicted as the dominators? Heck, in Tibetan imagery, we have thangkas - ritualistic sacred paintings - of sexual union where the woman is on top, so I guess I don't see the problem here.

We're a species that engages in sex for procreation as well as for pleasure. Why shut out any and all discussions and/or images of sexual acts that enhance this pleasure?




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Quiddity]

It implies both from what I can see. If your marriage is "ruined" from porn it goes deeper than weak minds.

It wasn't ruined by porn, but rather what porn did (assuming it happened) to my state of mind, behaivor, etc. Of course, it does go deeper, but there is little doubt in my mind that such activity is part of the equation. In fact, I've watched hundreds (no exaggeration) of documentaries of men and women in prison (even seen Jeffrey Dahmer and other serial killers) and guess what was a motivator? This isn't something I extracted or interpreted from it, this came from their own mouths.

And no, I'm not saying this is the inevitable results of all who watch porn. I'm simply saying that even at it's lowest extension it brings negative results.

 

[Mister_T]

AE and Mystic,

The gun was not the point. It was the motive and lack of self control.

For those of you who don't care for the gun analogy, replace "gun" with videogames. It's not the videogames fault.

 

[Mister_T]

The same can be said for marriages that are "ruined" by "sexual incompatability".

And the reverse of that is also true. We could go back and forth.

 

[SoyLeche]

AE and Mystic,

The gun was not the point. It was the motive and lack of self control.

For those of you who don't care for the gun analogy, replace "gun" with videogames. It's not the videogames fault.

But, AE's point remains - if the videogame hadn't been there...

I'm not saying videogames cause anything, but remove the videogame and some of the problem will go away (energy directed a different direction, more productive things accomplished leading to better self image, etc). While the videogame may not cause anything by itself, it may act as a catalyst - helping the actual cause along.

 

[SoyLeche]

And the reverse of that is also true. We could go back and forth.

The reverse of what?

 

[Mister_T]

That's fine. If that works for you, then surely you don't need my permission. I'm just trying to layout some emperical information that it does indeed hurt marriages, relationships, children, etc.

But Victor, is that porn's fault that marriages are hurt? Or is it the individuals?

People let porn ruin their marriage and then society blames it on porn instead of the individual. There's all kinds of things out there that can have a negetive impact on your life. Sheltering yourself from these all these things will not make them, or your problem (not you specifically) go away. You control on what has an impact on you and what doesn't. There is a verse from Paul that says soemthing like" do not let yourself be mastered by anything." The problem is the "you" not the "porn."

Anyways we should really get back on topic since this thread is not about porn.

 

[Mister_T]

But, AE's point remains - if the videogame hadn't been there...

I'm not saying videogames cause anything, but remove the videogame and some of the problem will go away (energy directed a different direction, more productive things accomplished leading to better self image, etc). While the videogame may not cause anything by itself, it may act as a catalyst - helping the actual cause along.

So we should all just live in a white room with nothing and be sheltered our whole lives then so nothing has an impact on us.

Again, the object gets the blame and the reponsibilty, and not the individual. We all possess free will. Nothing makes us do anything.

 

[Bishka]

Again, the object gets the blame and the reponsibilty, and not the individual. We all possess free will. Nothing makes us do anything.

There are addictions. No we can't be made to do anything, but addictions are extremeley hard to break and the porn/adult industry knows that.