Is Abstinence From Sex Before Marriage Really Best?

[Mister_T]

When did pornography start? I'm pretty sure it's been around almost as long as sex.

Note - I am using a very broad definition of "pornography" - which is why I delimited certain types - pictures, movies, books, conversations, etc. Some of these may not fit the technical definition of "pornography", but have largely the same effect.

However long film has been around I would imagine.

But my point was not the history of porno. My point was that we can't say things such as marital unfaithfulness, fetishes, etc. are caused soley from pornography.

 

[Quiddity]

However long film has been around I would imagine.

But my point was not the history of porno. My point was that we can't say things such as marital unfaithfulness, fetishes, etc. are caused soley from pornography.

No, it's not solely, but it's certainly caused many problems in relationships, marriages, broken up families, to begin with. The mind is a fragile and weak thing. I'm sure we can relate to it some way. Whatever attachement you struggle from stopping yourself from doing, then you can see that such an attachment as porn not only takes control of you, but alters your perception, enters your mind and even has some people act it out. How can something like that be good?

 

[SoyLeche]

However long film has been around I would imagine.

Did you just choose to ignore that last part of my post???

 

[SoyLeche]

But my point was not the history of porno. My point was that we can't say things such as marital unfaithfulness, fetishes, etc. are caused soley from pornography.

When did I say they were caused solely from pornography?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No, it's not solely, but it's certainly caused many problems in relationships, marriages, broken up families, to begin with. The mind is a fragile and weak thing. I'm sure we can relate to it some way. Whatever attachement you struggle from stopping yourself from doing, then you can see that such an attachment as porn not only takes control of you, but alters your perception, enters your mind and even has some people act it out. How can something like that be good?

I see what your point is, Victor, but I disagree. I don't think it's porn's inherent existence that has caused problems in marriages, but our delusions and/or attachments concerning them. I can concede that as long as we maintain that porn is strictly fantasy, that it shouldn't cause problems, but it's the perception of porn and how it somehow deludes people into thinking that this is reality or the crux of the sexual experience.

Oh, and I fully disagree with the fragility of the mind. Our minds are not fragile in the least, it's our egos that are the most fragile. But, then again, what other kind of answer would one expect from me?




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Mister_T]

Did you just choose to ignore that last part of my post???

Since I'm going by the technical term, yes.

 

[Mister_T]

When did I say they were caused solely from pornography?

Again - get rid of any pornography and a lot of that would go away too.

It sounds like that is what you were getting at.

 

[Mister_T]

No, it's not solely, but it's certainly caused many problems in relationships, marriages, broken up families, to begin with. The mind is a fragile and weak thing. I'm sure we can relate to it some way. Whatever attachement you struggle from stopping yourself from doing, then you can see that such an attachment as porn not only takes control of you, but alters your perception, enters your mind and even has some people act it out. How can something like that be good?

If pornography ruins your marriage, then your relationship isn't that strong to begin with. Sure you could shelter a person from it, but that won't make your relationship stronger. Thus it doesn't really do it any good. I can (and have) watched porn and I am as faithful a person as you could be. It has had no effect on my relationship.

 

[Bishka]

If pornography ruins your marriage, then your relationship isn't that strong to begin with. .

Not true at all. There are several strong relationships that get broken up from pornography. Just because it hasn't broken up you, doesn't mean it hasn't broken up thousands of marriages. The people are good people, the marriages are strong, then one gets addicted to pornography -- and that's where it starts.

 

[SoyLeche]

It sounds like that is what you were getting at.

Selective reading again - did you miss the "a lot"?

 

[SoyLeche]

Since I'm going by the technical term, yes.

Well, since I went to the trouble to describe the way I was using the term, the polite thing to do would be either just go with it, or define the way you are using the term before making the critique.

 

[Quiddity]

Hey Mystic...

I see what your point is, Victor, but I disagree. I don't think it's porn's inherent existence that has caused problems in marriages, but our delusions and/or attachments concerning them.

Isn't that what I said?

I can concede that as long as we maintain that porn is strictly fantasy, that it shouldn't cause problems, but it's the perception of porn and how it somehow deludes people into thinking that this is reality or the crux of the sexual experience.

That's the problem IMO.....people can't maintain that it's strictly fantasy. It's caused enormous harm on many levels. It creates an imaginary hole in people that they feel they have to fill. Some act it out in all sorts of ways. None of which are productive in the least. Some don't act it out but it can sure cheapen the relationships they do have.

Oh, and I fully disagree with the fragility of the mind. Our minds are not fragile in the least, it's our egos that are the most fragile. But, then again, what other kind of answer would one expect from me?

Doesn't our ego lie in our minds?

 

[Mister_T]

Just because it hasn't broken up you, doesn't mean it hasn't broken up thousands of marriages. The people are good people, the marriages are strong, then one gets addicted to pornography -- and that's where it starts.

Sorry. Didn't mean to make it seem that I was generalizing. But the reverse of that is also true: Just because it has broken up a marriage, doesn't mean it will break up all, or even most, marriages as some people would have you believe. There are many people who have continually watched porn (sometimes with their spouse) with no reprecussions.

Perhaps these guys who snap and become addicted (thus "ruining" their marriage) do so because they have been repressing themselves of such things for a very long time and when they finally do indulge, it takes them over. Just a theory.

 

[Quiddity]

If pornography ruins your marriage, then your relationship isn't that strong to begin with. Sure you could shelter a person from it, but that won't make your relationship stronger. Thus it doesn't really do it any good. I can (and have) watched porn and I am as faithful a person as you could be. It has had no effect on my relationship.

That's great, but not everybody has the same results. I too have seen enough in my days to know what it did to me back in the days. Did I ever cheat? NOPE...Was I faithful? Always. Did it affect my perception? Absolutely.

What you seem to be implying is no different then saying "we should allow X because it doesn't affect me."

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not true at all. There are several strong relationships that get broken up from pornography. Just because it hasn't broken up you, doesn't mean it hasn't broken up thousands of marriages. The people are good people, the marriages are strong, then one gets addicted to pornography -- and that's where it starts.

Yep. Addiction to porn breaks up marriages. No one is denying that.

Addiction to shopping has broken up marriages. So has alcohol. So has gambling.

Lots of things have broken up previously sound marriages. Perhaps the most devastating thing I'd heard is that marriages have been broken due to the loss of a child.

It isn't productive to demonize porn this readily. How many people here would believe me if I'd told them I'd heard of porn actually helping some marriages with spicing up their sex lives?

Porn is not the culprit. It's the misappropriation of the imagery and focus in porn as being the end-all and be-all of sex. It's our perceptions of what sex should be like, and then mistakenly tagging our expectations onto them.

I'd be so bold to suggest that the same thing can happen with soap operas and romance novels.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Quiddity]

Oh by the way Mister_T, it doesn't imply you had a weak relationship; it implies you have a weak mind.

 

[SoyLeche]

How many people here would believe me if I'd told them I'd heard of porn actually helping some marriages with spicing up their sex lives?

I'd repeat my assertion that problems with a couple's "sex lives" largely are often hiding other problems (i.e. they aren't the real problem, they are a symptom) and that the marriages probably could have been helped in many different ways not involving porn.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Hey Mystic...

Hey, compadre. You like my new attempts of mindfulness in my spacings? =D

That's the problem IMO.....people can't maintain that it's strictly fantasy. It's caused enormous harm on many levels. It creates an imaginary hole in people that they feel they have to fill. Some act it out in all sorts of ways. None of which are productive in the least. Some don't act it out but it can sure cheapen the relationships they do have.

Some people can't, but some can maintain a proper perspective. I'm also not sure I'm following you with how it can cheapen relationships.

Doesn't our ego lie in our minds?

Only according to Freud. When speaking of the mind, I'm speaking from the perspective of a Buddhist. I'm sorry for confusing you.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Mister_T]

Selective reading again - did you miss the "a lot"?

Try using terminlogy that isn't so broad....again.
Maybe you would like to expand on what "a lot of that would go away" is refering to specifically.

 

[Mister_T]

That's great, but not everybody has the same results. I too have seen enough in my days to know what it did to me back in the days. Did I ever cheat? NOPE...Was I faithful? Always. Did it affect my perception? Absolutely.

What you seem to be implying is no different then saying "we should allow X because it doesn't affect me."

Sorry again. I didn't mean to make it seem like a generalization. I know every situation is not going to be the same. I was just providing a situation where porn hasn't ruined a relationship.

As to what I'm implying, I'm saying that "X" should not be taken away or condemned because it affects a few people.