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Imagine all the people living life in peace ....

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by atanu, May 16, 2020.

  1. atanu

    atanu Member
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    …Imagine all the people living for today
    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
    You may say I'm a dreamer …….

    John Lennon/Yoko Ono wrote this iconic song, which John sang. But indeed it is a pipe dream.

    Data from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute’s (SIPRI) shows that the world’s ten biggest arms exporting countries made armament transfers worth more than $25 bn in 2018. Army-technology.com lists the top ten arms exporting countries based on SIPRI estimates of values of arms transferred in 2018.

    The top ten arms exporters of 2018, from smallest to largest, are: Italy (707 mn); United Kingdom (741 mn); China (1.04 bn); South Korea (1.08 bn); Spain (1.18 bn); Germany (1.27 bn); France (1.76 bn); Russia (6.4 bn); and the USA (10.5 bn). The SIPRI study shows that between 2010–14 and 2015–19, exports of major arms from the USA grew by 23 per cent, raising its share of total global arms exports to 36 per cent. In 2015–19 total US arms exports were 76 per cent higher than those of the second-largest arms exporter in the world, Russia.

    Among the top 10 arms exporters outside Europe and North America, Israel and South Korea showed the biggest increase in exports. Israeli arms exports increased by 77 per cent in 2015-2019 — a record for the country and South Korea showed a 143 per cent increase.

    Wikipedia shows the list of biggest postwar (1950-2017) arms exporters. The list is very predictable. The first 10 countries in the list are: USA (682607 bn); UK (141385 bn); Russia (140057 bn); France (122558 bn); Germany (86740 bn); China (54395 bn); Italy (32855 bn), Czech Republic (29320 bn); Netherlands (24302 bn); and Israel (17457 bn).

    Arms industry - Wikipedia

    The world's largest arms manufacturers and other military service companies who profit the most from the War economy are located in USA, UK, Italy, Germany, and Israel. The biggest US companies along with their Defense revenues are Lockheed Martin (47.2 bn); Boeing (29.1 bn); Northrop Grumman (26.1 bn); Raytheon (23.4 bn); and General Dynamics (2.0 bn). We do not have any mechanism of adding the indirect revenues of other companies such as Google, Amazon, or Microsoft. Five other big arms manufacturers are from Europe.

    Arms imports by countries in the Middle East increased by 61 per cent between 2010–14 and 2015–19, and accounted for 35 per cent of total global arms imports over the past five years. Saudi Arabia was the world’s largest arms importer in 2015–19. Its imports of major arms increased by 130 per cent compared with the previous five-year period and it accounted for 12 per cent of global arms imports in 2015–19. The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has been militarily involved in Libya as well as Yemen over the past five years and was the eighth-largest arms importer in the world in 2015–19.

    India, my country, was the second-largest arms importer in the world, over the past five years.

    Does the aforesaid data support the oft-repeated statement that religion, and particularly Islam is the cause of hatred and war? Which religion teaches arms production for killing others? As far I remember, Moses was given only a stick.

    The data, in my opinion, shows that Capitalism in the postwar period could re-invent colonialism through the route of arms manufacture and exports to the willing parties. And who knows the role that the manufacturers play in the armed conflicts around the world. Data shows that the areas exporting countries sell arms to both parties in conflicts - to West Asia and to India and Pakistan.

    I have also often heard that scientific pursuits and their applications are pure and benevolent. But is it so easy to protect fruits of scientific achievements from greed of men? To what extent science and technology have contributed to the welfare of the planet and to what extent it has contributed towards the creation of killing machines and poisons? I have an opinion that scientists are innocent pawns at the hands of much bigger sharks. Which scientist could stand up to dropping of bombs on cities of Japan?

    With aforesaid data in the background, I ask readers to enquire into and discuss if possible four questions: 1) Is it correct to say that religion is the main cause of war and killings? 2) Is it correct to say that Islam is the main cause of conflicts in the world? 3) What worldview drives the materialistic motivation of maximising profit from war economies for the companies and countries? 4) What peaceful loving individuals can do to mitigate the demonic power of private merchants of death? and 5) What scientists can do to minimise damages from potential misuse of scientific and technological advances?

    ...
     
    #1 atanu, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
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  2. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    1: No, misunderstanding of religious/spiritual scripture can lead to war, but not Religion in itself.
    2: No, Islam in itself is not the cause, the wrong understanding of the Quran and the use of power is the cause of Islam has gotten a bad reputation. Terrorists who claim to be of Islam is not Muslims (in my understanding)
    3: Communism, Marxism, are two of the worsed drivers for materialistic worldview (in my understanding)
    4: Peaceful spiritual people could do, but they often do not care about the materialistic lifestyle.
    5: Stop producing weapons for countries and especially to governments around the world.
     
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  3. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Might want to check your facts. John wrote the song alone, and some of the lyrics may have been influenced by Yoko's poetry; which begs the question is you've ever forced yourself to sit through thirty seconds of Yoko's "singing"....
     
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  4. atanu

    atanu Member
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    That is not important for the thread, imo. But YMMV. :)
     
  5. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Tell that to all the countries at odds with each other in the ME.

    All of the most popular religions are guilty of actions that work against world peace.
     
  6. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    It always amuses me when I hear religious people singing Imagine. Don't they understand that the song says that you can't have world peace if you have religion(s)?
     
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  7. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    In my understanding, it is some of the people from different religions who have misunderstood parts or even whole religions that are the cause of the misery that is seen for example in the Middle East, Not the religious teaching in itself.

    But this is of course only my understanding of it.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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  9. atanu

    atanu Member
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    So. Folks do not want to comment on arms manufacturing and exports and role of armaments industry towards world peace (lack of it).
     
  10. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Who decides the correct understanding of a religion? For example, who is correct, the Sunni or the Shia?
     
  11. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    But it's built into the very notion of religions. As in, they invariably split into factions besides conflicting with other religions.
     
  12. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    The scripture and the original teacher of the path. Everyone who comes after the founder is the students of the teachings. so they will have their understanding of it.
    There are people in every religion and in every atheistic community who have something wrong understood, or misunderstood. That does not make them less of a person. It only means they have to study deeper to realize closer to the full truth.
     
  13. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    What is built into the religions?

    In my understanding.
    If you thinking about the scriptures? remember that some scriptures have been changed in later years due to misunderstanding in translations, and from followers who interpret the scripture from their own wisdom level, it means they could have gotten it wrong, and when they then translate it or use their own words as God`s words /Buddha`s words and so on. it will be misunderstood and not realized the full truth.
     
  14. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Do you ever have differences with your colleagues, family or in neighbourhood? What causes these differences?

    Although every religion teaches the effacement of ego and the golden rule “Do unto others what what you want for yourself’, we are not free of our ego-s. That is why, although I like Imagine immensely, I call it a pipe dream.

    BTW, I see see no observation from your side on the potential role of profit motive of armaments industry on lack of world peace. Do you think that the human greed of profit making at the cost of human lives is not a cause of strife?
    ...
     
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  15. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The theme to learn lessons, always says that conditions that are Universal has the last say.

    And we constantly tell our human stories in movies where a great world calamity brings about world unity and world peace and maybe that might be just what needs to occur to a human society who says that they are intelligent and spiritual and yet the alter condition is being expressed, with innocence pleading for a voice to be heard.

    You never know.
     
  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    You've mentioned the word - interpretation (and translation/errors/etc.) - seems to change even from when they originate besides so many centuries into the future,. They are often pinned to the time of origin, and often the values, and hence set themselves up for future conflict. Because humans aren't a static species.
     
  17. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    In a perfect world, the religious texts would never be rewritten or changed by people who come after the first generation of religious teaching. Unfortunately, peoples ego and their need for "free-living" leads to them seeing morality in religions as bad for them, because it means they have to follow "rules" so instead of changing themself to become better human beings, they change the words of the teaching to fit what they want it to be. And of course, then it will lead to the decline of the true teaching, and people become immoral because they do no longer live by the moral standards set by those enlightened teachers
     
  18. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Oh no, you din't...
     
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  19. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Facts are facts...
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    He made you vomit?
    My post of her singing videos was supposed to do that!
     
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  21. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    1) Is it correct to say that religion is the main cause of war and killings?

    No. If humans hadn't invented religion, they would still have started wars to prove that their nation, their tribe or their race was superior to their neighbors.

    2) Is it correct to say that Islam is the main cause of conflicts in the world?

    No. It is true to say that Islamic extremists are well behind the moral progress being made by our species.

    3) What worldview drives the materialistic motivation of maximising profit from war economies for the companies and countries?

    Arrogance, the need to feel superior to others, drives most human misbehavior.

    4) What peaceful loving individuals can do to mitigate the demonic power of private merchants of death?

    In a democracy, we can vote for progressive politicians who put quality of life interests above money, business and profit.

    5) What scientists can do to minimise damages from potential misuse of scientific and technological advances?

    They can refuse to work for companies making weapons of war.
     
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