Imagine all the people living life in peace ....

[BSM1]

Had a girl do the Yoko thing at an open mic awhile back. Stunned disbelief quickly gave way to abject fear of the otherwise normal young lady...

 

[Altfish]

That is not important for the thread, imo. But YMMV.

But if you start with a falsehood, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the narrative,

 

[Revoltingest]

Had a girl do the Yoko thing at an open mic awhile back. Stunned disbelief quickly gave way to abject fear of the otherwise normal young lady...

I recall that she sang a song once that was just buzzing like a fly.
It was her best work.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In a perfect world, the religious texts would never be rewritten or changed by people who come after the first generation of religious teaching. Unfortunately, peoples ego and their need for "free-living" leads to them seeing morality in religions as bad for them, because it means they have to follow "rules" so instead of changing themself to become better human beings, they change the words of the teaching to fit what they want it to be. And of course, then it will lead to the decline of the true teaching, and people become immoral because they do no longer live by the moral standards set by those enlightened teachers

Fine, but don't you think someone might have thought about any future conflicts that might arise? That's one of the issues for me - they just seem to have originated from possibly well-intentioned people, and with no divine input at all.

 

[Twilight Hue]

…Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer …….​

Yoko Ono wrote this iconic song, which John sang. But indeed it is a pipe dream.

Data from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute’s (SIPRI) shows that the world’s ten biggest arms exporting countries made armament transfers worth more than $25 bn in 2018. Army-technology.com lists the top ten arms exporting countries based on SIPRI estimates of values of arms transferred in 2018.

The top ten arms exporters of 2018, from smallest to largest, are: Italy (707 mn); United Kingdom (741 mn); China (1.04 bn); South Korea (1.08 bn); Spain (1.18 bn); Germany (1.27 bn); France (1.76 bn); Russia (6.4 bn); and the USA (10.5 bn). The SIPRI study shows that between 2010–14 and 2015–19, exports of major arms from the USA grew by 23 per cent, raising its share of total global arms exports to 36 per cent. In 2015–19 total US arms exports were 76 per cent higher than those of the second-largest arms exporter in the world, Russia.

Among the top 10 arms exporters outside Europe and North America, Israel and South Korea showed the biggest increase in exports. Israeli arms exports increased by 77 per cent in 2015-2019 — a record for the country and South Korea showed a 143 per cent increase.

Wikipedia shows the list of biggest postwar (1950-2017) arms exporters. The list is very predictable. The first 10 countries in the list are: USA (682607 bn); UK (141385 bn); Russia (140057 bn); France (122558 bn); Germany (86740 bn); China (54395 bn); Italy (32855 bn), Czech Republic (29320 bn); Netherlands (24302 bn); and Israel (17457 bn).

Arms industry - Wikipedia

The world's largest arms manufacturers and other military service companies who profit the most from the War economy are located in USA, UK, Italy, Germany, and Israel. The biggest US companies along with their Defense revenues are Lockheed Martin (47.2 bn); Boeing (29.1 bn); Northrop Grumman (26.1 bn); Raytheon (23.4 bn); and General Dynamics (2.0 bn). We do not have any mechanism of adding the indirect revenues of other companies such as Google, Amazon, or Microsoft. Five other big arms manufacturers are from Europe.

Arms imports by countries in the Middle East increased by 61 per cent between 2010–14 and 2015–19, and accounted for 35 per cent of total global arms imports over the past five years. Saudi Arabia was the world’s largest arms importer in 2015–19. Its imports of major arms increased by 130 per cent compared with the previous five-year period and it accounted for 12 per cent of global arms imports in 2015–19. The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has been militarily involved in Libya as well as Yemen over the past five years and was the eighth-largest arms importer in the world in 2015–19.

India, my country, was the second-largest arms importer in the world, over the past five years.

Does the aforesaid data support the oft-repeated statement that religion, and particularly Islam is the cause of hatred and war? Which religion teaches arms production for killing others? As far I remember, Moses was given only a stick.

The data, in my opinion, shows that Capitalism in the postwar period could re-invent colonialism through the route of arms manufacture and exports to the willing parties. And who knows the role that the manufacturers play in the armed conflicts around the world. Data shows that the areas exporting countries sell arms to both parties in conflicts - to West Asia and to India and Pakistan.

I have also often heard that scientific pursuits and their applications are pure and benevolent. But is it so easy to protect fruits of scientific achievements from greed of men? To what extent science and technology have contributed to the welfare of the planet and to what extent it has contributed towards the creation of killing machines and poisons? I have an opinion that scientists are innocent pawns at the hands of much bigger sharks. Which scientist could stand up to dropping of bombs on cities of Japan?

With aforesaid data in the background, I ask readers to enquire into and discuss if possible four questions: 1) Is it correct to say that religion is the main cause of war and killings? 2) Is it correct to say that Islam is the main cause of conflicts in the world? 3) What worldview drives the materialistic motivation of maximising profit from war economies for the companies and countries? 4) What peaceful loving individuals can do to mitigate the demonic power of private merchants of death? and 5) What scientists can do to minimise damages from potential misuse of scientific and technological advances?

...

I would say tech companies are going to get a lot more involved as well, as more sophisticated software with self learning AI operating war machines without any crew or pilot with margins of error being substantially reduced with terrifying accuracy.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Fine, but don't you think someone might have thought about any future conflicts that might arise? That's one of the issues for me - they just seem to have originated from possibly well-intentioned people, and with no divine input at all.

To me all spiritual life is divine

 

[ecco]

So. Folks do not want to comment on arms manufacturing and exports and role of armaments industry towards world peace (lack of it).

Start a thread and see what happens.

 

[atanu]

He made you vomit?
My post of her singing videos was supposed to do that!

Vomit? I do not follow you. I did not listen to her singing in your video since I know she cannot sing. I do not, however, understand how Yoko's singing competence is important here? YMMV

 

[atanu]

But if you start with a falsehood, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the narrative,

First, the so-called falsehood was not intentional to influence opinion. Second, I have checked and found that it is not a falsehood 100 per cent. John himself credited joint authorship of the song to Yoko. Yet, IMO, the point is moot for the questions raised in the thread.

 

[Altfish]

First, the so-called falsehood was not intentional to influence opinion. Second, I have checked and found that it is not a falsehood 100 per cent. John himself credited joint authorship of the song to Yoko. Yet, IMO, the point is moot for the questions raised in the thread.

That is why I called it a falsehood, not a lie.

 

[atanu]

That is why I called it a falsehood, not a lie.

It was an error. 'Falsehood' means lying, which I did not.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That is why I called it a falsehood, not a lie.

Nitpicking

 

[atanu]

I would say tech companies are going to get a lot more involved as well, as more sophisticated software with self learning AI operating war machines without any crew or pilot with margins of error being substantially reduced with terrifying accuracy.

That is a cause of worry. AI is not going to be humanlike with compassion but it can multiply with precision the greed of those who may want so.

 

[icehorse]

Do you ever have differences with your colleagues, family or in neighbourhood? What causes these differences?

Although every religion teaches the effacement of ego and the golden rule “Do unto others what what you want for yourself’, we are not free of our ego-s. That is why, although I like Imagine immensely, I call it a pipe dream.

BTW, I see see no observation from your side on the potential role of profit motive of armaments industry on lack of world peace. Do you think that the human greed of profit making at the cost of human lives is not a cause of strife?
...

I think it's always interesting to debate with religious apologists. So, since you are assuming the role of apologist in this thread, let me ask you this: What constitutes the "religion" that you're defending? Is it the scripture? Is it the places of worship and the clergy? What exactly is it that you're defending? BTW, I don't think there is a "correct" answer here, but for the purpose of this discussion I can't really debate unless I know what position you're holding

As for the masters of war, I think they're all reprehensible!

 

[icehorse]

The scripture and the original teacher of the path. Everyone who comes after the founder is the students of the teachings. so they will have their understanding of it.
There are people in every religion and in every atheistic community who have something wrong understood, or misunderstood. That does not make them less of a person. It only means they have to study deeper to realize closer to the full truth.

whole knows the "full truth"?

This is one problem I have with religion. It makes huge claims, but won't take any responsibility. If apologists always try to pass the buck, that really undermines their arguments. So, please define exactly what is this religion that you're defending? Is it some scripture, some places of worship? What is it exactly?

 

[Revoltingest]

Vomit? I do not follow you. I did not listen to her singing in your video since I know she cannot sing. I do not, however, understand how Yoko's singing competence is important here? YMMV

YMMV = You Made Me Vomit

 

[atanu]

I think it's always interesting to debate with religious apologists. So, since you are assuming the role of apologist in this thread, let me ask you this: What constitutes the "religion" that you're defending? Is it the scripture? Is it the places of worship and the clergy? What exactly is it that you're defending? BTW, I don't think there is a "correct" answer here, but for the purpose of this discussion I can't really debate unless I know what position you're holding

Why do I need to assume the role of an apologist when I am clear and I have already pointed out that all religions teach the golden rule? Religions teach that the "I am" awareness is a general and is pervading through body-minds. The teaching of the falsity of the ego self is the central teaching of the religions. But even if I hear this teaching, it is not necessary that I will be able to overcome the instinctive pulls of ego towards unwholesome acts. But in time, through the surrender of ego-self or through diligent meditation, the seer aspect of mind gains prominence over the ego-self. But that may take more or less time.

But ego "I versus them" acts universally for all beings. Do not claim that you are above it. I asked you a few questions, which you did not answer. But let that be. It is your wish.

As for the masters of war, I think they're all reprehensible!

Thank you. My main interest was to share with readers the data of arms manufacturers, exporters, and importers.
...

 

[atanu]

YMMV = You Made Me Vomit

You ...

 

[Spirit of Light]

whole knows the "full truth"?

This is one problem I have with religion. It makes huge claims, but won't take any responsibility. If apologists always try to pass the buck, that really undermines their arguments. So, please define exactly what is this religion that you're defending? Is it some scripture, some places of worship? What is it exactly?

In my understanding.
The different religions holds the truth of the founder, it come down to what level of enlightenment each spiritual teacher reach. You can enlighten fullt to this teaching, but only as high as the level of the teacher.
The most clear wisdom can only be understood fully by those who realize the truth on that level.

 

[Revoltingest]

You ...

Me?