waitasec
Veteran Member
i have seen faith, believing in things unseen, make people do and say very ugly things...
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If God is the most merciful & compassionate
- Thread starter atmarama
- Start date
i have seen faith, believing in things unseen, make people do and say very ugly things...
waitasec
Veteran Member
savethedreams
Active Member
Jehovah Witnesses are a Christian faith that use the same line of reason, and denounce the idea of a 'hell' or eternal punishment.
Man of Faith
Well-Known Member
Here is how I understand it. If I break the law I will get punished unless I let someone other than myself, that offers to, pay for my crime.
waitasec
Veteran Member
according to the bible god thinks it's ok to rape a girl that is not pledged to a man
:areyoucra
and you can beat slaves and sell their children too
nice laws
The people that formed such concepts and the people that follow them lack civilized ethics and empathy. The concepts are rooted in a more violent time and place and yet continue to propagate today.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I think that is more of a people problem.
waitasec
Veteran Member
well of course it's a people problem...
when was the last time you met a religious monkey?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
This type of post is why I won't take you seriously.
waitasec
Veteran Member
faith is a people problem...isn't it?
JustWondering
Jerk
Still waiting for an intelligent response to post 62.
JustWondering
Jerk
Building a dungeon to torture people in does not strike me as a merciful, compasionate act. If god created a hell so it can torture people then this god is not merciful or compassionate. For those who believe in hell and somehow believe god is merciful and compassionate, how is jumping through hoops to appease an angry, wrathful god any different then giving your lunch money to the school bully so he doesn't beat you up?
Walkntune
Well-Known Member
Stolen merchandise is usually hot, not the hand that took it.
Nadia Faiazova
Member
Hi! I don't beleive in hellfire, because it is not what God does to people after their death. I beleive that Bible is God's inspired word, and in it you can find such reassuring words about are beloved dead ones:"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5). There are many false teachings that describe God as cruel, and evil person, by attributing Him desire to torture people, notice HIS CREATION, in eternal hellfire. Here is what Jehovah God himself says about such ideas: "And they have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." (Jeremiah 7:31)
A-ManESL
Well-Known Member
I havent gone through all the posts, anyway here is my take: Firstly, I dont accept that any valid religion (and I consider both Christianity and Islam to be valid) says that if you dont follow the path shown by that particular religion, then you will be punished for it.
Secondly, spiritually speaking, everything there is derives its existence from God. Man also has a part of him from this divine plane, and this part gives him an angst (which some can feel and some can) which propels him towards evolving back and rejoining himself with the essence of the divinity, i.e. with God. In Sufi terminology, this angst, this uniting force (which by the way also subtly pulls us towards everything else too, for the divinity in each recognizes the other) is termed as love. Heaven is the term which hide behinds it the real purpose of being in union with the essence of God.
There is a hadith(tradition of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)) that after judgement day has come and all people have been amply rewarded, God will ask man "Are you satisfied?" Everyone in heaven will proclaim that indeed they are. Then God will reveal his own Self to man, and the wonders that they had been enjoying in heaven would become of no consequence, and all the happiness and joy that previously had been enjoyed in heaven would appear to be nothing in front of this indescribable joy.
This union is what Rabia Basri was referring to when she said:
So union with the essence of God is the real heaven and the rest is allegory for understanding as per the context and time of the people when the revelation occured. This union is the target of the people who turn their nature's towards God. For those who arent interested in God, they will not achieve that essence in totality. They shall remain part of the divine plane, but on the opposite end...the seperation of them from the essence is what is termed as hell. Even this is possible with the beneficence of God, for as Rumi says: “The inhabitants of Hell will be happier in Hell than they were in the world, for in the world they had no idea of God, whereas in Hell they will think of Him--and nothing can be sweeter than knowledge of God.”
Regards
Last edited:
A Thousand Suns
Rationalist
A) Allah is Forgiving/Merciful/Loving
"My mercy extends to all things." [7/ al-A'raf/156]
"He is Allah there is no deity but Him. He is the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible. He is the All-Merciful, the Most Merciful. He is Allah there is no deity but Him. He is the King, the Most Pure, the Perfect Peace, the Trustworthy, the Safe guarder, the Almighty, the Compeller, the Supremely Great. Glory be to Allah above all they associate with Him. He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Giver of Form. To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Everything in the heavens and Earth glorifies Him. He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. [Surat al-Hashr, 22-24]
In a Hadith-e-Qudsi, it has been mentioned: "Allah said: 'My mercy overrides my wrath'
In an another Hadith-e-Qudsi, it has been mentioned Allah said: 'I love my creation 70 times more than a mother does'
B)Allah is Just to his creation
The question is, whether Allah is forgiving or revengeful? An important point to be noted is that Allah besides being Merciful and Forgiving, He also has to give severe punishment to the deserving wicked or evil people, because He is also Just.
The Quran mentions in Surah Nisa: "Allah is never unjust in the least degree". [Al-Quran 4:40]
It is further mentioned in Surah Al-Ambiya:"We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgement, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, we will bring it (to account): and enough are we to take account".[Al-Quran 21:47]
C)If Allah forgives all and punishes none, who will obey him?
If Allah (swt) forgives each and every human being and punishes no one, then why should the human beings obey the command of Allah (swt)? I do agree that no one will go to hell, but this world would become hell to live in. If all human beings are going to go to heaven then what is the purpose and use of the human beings to come to this world, this life cannot be called a test for the hereafter.
D) Allah only forgives if a person repents
Allah (swt) only forgives if a person repents.
The Quran says in Surah Al-Zumar, chapter 39 verse 53-55:
"Say: O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
"Turn ye to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (will), before the penalty comes on you - after that ye shall not be helped."
"And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the penalty comes on you - of a sudden, while ye perceive not!"
[Al-Quran 39:53-55]
E)Allah gives severe punishment to the deserving
Allah besides being Merciful and Forgiving is also strict in giving punishment to the deserving. The Quran mentions in several verses that Allah will give severe punishment to the unbelievers and rejecters of faith. He will give punishment to all those who disobey Him. Several verses of the Quran describe the various types of severe punishment that Allah will give in hell to all those who disobey.
"Those who reject our Signs, we shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins .Are roasted through, we shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise". [Al-Quran 4:56]
"My mercy extends to all things." [7/ al-A'raf/156]
"He is Allah there is no deity but Him. He is the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible. He is the All-Merciful, the Most Merciful. He is Allah there is no deity but Him. He is the King, the Most Pure, the Perfect Peace, the Trustworthy, the Safe guarder, the Almighty, the Compeller, the Supremely Great. Glory be to Allah above all they associate with Him. He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Giver of Form. To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Everything in the heavens and Earth glorifies Him. He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. [Surat al-Hashr, 22-24]
In a Hadith-e-Qudsi, it has been mentioned: "Allah said: 'My mercy overrides my wrath'
In an another Hadith-e-Qudsi, it has been mentioned Allah said: 'I love my creation 70 times more than a mother does'
B)Allah is Just to his creation
The question is, whether Allah is forgiving or revengeful? An important point to be noted is that Allah besides being Merciful and Forgiving, He also has to give severe punishment to the deserving wicked or evil people, because He is also Just.
The Quran mentions in Surah Nisa: "Allah is never unjust in the least degree". [Al-Quran 4:40]
It is further mentioned in Surah Al-Ambiya:"We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgement, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, we will bring it (to account): and enough are we to take account".[Al-Quran 21:47]
C)If Allah forgives all and punishes none, who will obey him?
If Allah (swt) forgives each and every human being and punishes no one, then why should the human beings obey the command of Allah (swt)? I do agree that no one will go to hell, but this world would become hell to live in. If all human beings are going to go to heaven then what is the purpose and use of the human beings to come to this world, this life cannot be called a test for the hereafter.
D) Allah only forgives if a person repents
Allah (swt) only forgives if a person repents.
The Quran says in Surah Al-Zumar, chapter 39 verse 53-55:
"Say: O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
"Turn ye to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (will), before the penalty comes on you - after that ye shall not be helped."
"And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the penalty comes on you - of a sudden, while ye perceive not!"
[Al-Quran 39:53-55]
E)Allah gives severe punishment to the deserving
Allah besides being Merciful and Forgiving is also strict in giving punishment to the deserving. The Quran mentions in several verses that Allah will give severe punishment to the unbelievers and rejecters of faith. He will give punishment to all those who disobey Him. Several verses of the Quran describe the various types of severe punishment that Allah will give in hell to all those who disobey.
"Those who reject our Signs, we shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins .Are roasted through, we shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise". [Al-Quran 4:56]
Sorry, but that invalidates his mercy.
If a being tortures someone, they are not merciful. Continually roasting someone and exchanging their skins is sadistic.
This deity sheds a lot of light on the personalities of people that claim to worship it.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
So it does, especially considering that torture is endemic in muslim societies.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Those that Love Him.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.