Funny that because I know I was saved. I was convinced Jesus loved me. I was convinced of the truth of The Bible. And yet with one sweeping statement you have tried to invalidate my experience. This is the worse kind of lie I can imagine. It's not just about me either. I know at least 2 other people who were very devout, for years, and now they are atheists. Are they phoney too? I think they would be insulted.
Do you see yourself as one of the sheep then? I guess some people don't mind being emotionally fleeced by religious nonsense. If only they would keep the poison to themselves.
Smidjit, good comment by the way:yes:
Spectrox War:
(I suppose I should point out which version of he Bible I get some verses from, the stuff in the public domain I might not bother, but anyway the following from the ASV, but it is in clear enough English that I don't have to worry about the Elizabethan problem.)
1Corinthians 1
17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void. 18For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought. 20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was Gods good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 22Seeing that Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek after wisdom: 23but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness; 24but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called : 27but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; 28and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are: 29that no flesh should glory before God. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 31that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
It is obvious that no matter who or what will reason with a person who doesn't want to believe, won't as the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Or to put it Biblically,
Luke 16
27And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my fathers house; 28for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.
Oh, an emotional response, eh? Apparently this wasn't read:
The --whole-- thing from the World English Bible, yeah public domain, moderator!
Matthew 13
3He spoke to them many things in parables, saying, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow. 4As he sowed, some seeds fell by the roadside, and the birds came and devoured them. 5Others fell on rocky ground, where they didnt have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of earth. 6When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away. 7Others fell among thorns. The thorns grew up and choked them. 8Others fell on good soil, and yielded fruit: some one hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty. 9He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
10The disciples came, and said to him, Why do you speak to them in parables?
11He answered them, "To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. 12For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will have abundance, but whoever doesnt have, from him will be taken away even that which he has. 13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they dont see, and hearing, they dont hear, neither do they understand. 14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says,
By hearing you will hear,
and will in no way understand;
Seeing you will see,
and will in no way perceive:
15for this peoples heart has grown callous,
their ears are dull of hearing,
they have closed their eyes;
or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their heart,
and should turn again;
and I would heal them.
16But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. 17For most certainly I tell you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which you see, and didnt see them; and to hear the things which you hear, and didnt hear them.
18Hear, then, the parable of the farmer. 19When anyone hears the word of the Kingdom, and doesnt understand it, the evil one comes, and snatches away that which has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown by the roadside. 20What was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while. When oppression or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22What was sown among the thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of this age and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23What was sown on the good ground, this is he who hears the word, and understands it, who most certainly bears fruit, and brings forth, some one hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty."
An emotional foundation is lacking in a good roots.
Oh, well,
The bad part of it, especially for me, lies in the fact that science of all things seems to demand the existence of a God ---Freud
I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and naturally hope that I'm right in my belief. It's that I hope that there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that--atheist Professor/Philosopher Thomas Nagel
excerpts from,
Is faith in God a crutch? a short monograph on the topic, from one of my favorite Baptist sites.