I see no value in atheism

[Willamena]

I don't get the point.

1. There is a god.
2. I don't say there is a god nor do I say there is no god.
3. There is no god.

Negation is a "yes/no" thing. It's kind of binary.

 

[ArtieE]

I'm fine with the pendulum image, Artie, it's just that there's theism on one end and atheism on the other, and undecided in the middle.

Correct. And a person who is undecided is per definition "not theist" (atheist) and not a "strong atheist".

 

[Willamena]

Correct. And a person who is undecided is per definition "not theist" (atheist) and not a "strong atheist".

And to wrap it up, once more, the definition of atheist is not, "not the theist." It's the person who disbelieves or lacks belief in god/gods.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

And to wrap it up, once more, the definition of atheist is not, "not the theist."

The definition of Atheist is anyone who lacks a belief in god.

 

[leibowde84]

You can logically prove the Biblical God can't exist by citing all the contradictory statements about Him in the Bible. It doesn't matter how many books you write about a bachelor describing his marriage in excruciating detail. A married bachelor doesn't exist.

Oh, I agree that it might be possible to disprove Specific notions of God, but I don't think it's possible to disprove god in general.

 

[ArtieE]

Negation is a "yes/no" thing. It's kind of binary.

I'll just repeat what I said because I can't think of a simpler way to say it.

1. There is a god.
2. I don't say there is a god nor do I say there is no god.
3. There is no god.

Person number 2 is per definition atheist (not theist).

 

[leibowde84]

And to wrap it up, once more, the definition of atheist is not, "not the theist." It's the person who disbelieves or lacks belief in god/gods.

Lack of belief is certainly not the same as negative belief, right? So anyone who is undecided would fit because they lack belief, right?

 

[leibowde84]

Negation is a "yes/no" thing. It's kind of binary.

What about those who merely lack belief, but do not believe that God doesn't exist? Some just don't believe either way. There are many atheists who fit this description because they merely lack belief.

 

[Willamena]

What about those who merely lack belief, but do not believe that God doesn't exist? Some just don't believe either way. There are many atheists who fit this description because they merely lack belief.

It's not the same, but it's still in the same context that what should be negated as atheism is what is believed, rather than the act of believing, or the fact of a believer.

 

[leibowde84]

I'll just repeat what I said because I can't think of a simpler way to say it.

1. There is a god.
2. I don't say there is a god nor do I say there is no god.
3. There is no god.

Person number 2 is per definition atheist (not theist).

See ... it's not binary. There are three options. Where are we losing her?

 

[Willamena]

See ... it's not binary. There are three options. Where are we losing her?

You lose me when "atheism" becomes the negation of the act of believing, or the fact of a believer.

 

[leibowde84]

It's not the same, but it's still in the same context that what should be negated as atheism is what is believed, rather than the act of believing, or the believer.

That is not the meaning of the term, even by your provided definitiin. The term signifies a lack of belief in God. That's all that is required. Right?

 

[leibowde84]

You lose me when "atheism" becomes the negation of the act of believing, or the fact of a believer.

That is How the term is defined. Even according to the definition you provided. Where are you getting this different definition from?

 

[Willamena]

That is not the meaning of the term, even by your provided definitiin. The term signifies a lack of belief in God. That's all that is required. Right?

No, the term atheist signifies the person who lacks belief in god. You're shifting the negation to be about the act of belief itself.

"Lacking" (the elimination of "There is a god") is the act it should be about.

"There is no god." = the negated, eliminative belief that corresponds to "There is a god."

 

[Curious George]

What about those who merely lack belief, but do not believe that God doesn't exist? Some just don't believe either way. There are many atheists who fit this description because they merely lack belief.

She answered that up a little way. "A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in god." But why is it important to put them in a box?

 

[Curious George]

I'll just repeat what I said because I can't think of a simpler way to say it.

1. There is a god.
2. I don't say there is a god nor do I say there is no god.
3. There is no god.

Person number 2 is per definition atheist (not theist).

If you believe there is a god you are a theist. If you believe there is no god you are an atheist if you "don't say. .." then you don't say what you are.

 

[Willamena]

That is How the term is defined. Even according to the definition you provided. Where are you getting this different definition from?

Grade 3 English, learning about negations, subjects and objects. I forget her name, but she had a very large ruler.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, the term atheist signifies the person who lacks belief in god.

Agreed.

"Lacking" (the elimination of "There is a god") is the act it should be about.

"Lacking" is not the same thing as "the elimination of". If I "lack" a sandwich, that doesn't mean I "eliminate" the concept of sandwiches or believe there are no such things as sandwiches. All it implies is that I do not possess a sandwich.

Likewise, lacking a belief in God makes you an atheist, and lacking a belief does not imply a belief in a negation of that belief or the elimination of it. I merely lack a belief.

"There is no god." = the negated, eliminative belief that corresponds to "There is a god."

Holding a "negative, eliminative belief" is not the same as lacking a belief.

If you believe there is a god you are a theist. If you believe there is no god you are an atheist if you "don't say. .." then you don't say what you are.

I think it could be more accurately worded to "I don't believe..." rather than "I don't say..." if that helps.

 

[Willamena]

"Lacking" is not the same thing as "the elimination of". If I "lack" a sandwich, that doesn't mean I eliminate the concept of sandwiches or believe there are no such things as sandwiches. All it implies is that I do not possess a sandwich.

Likewise, lacking a belief in God makes you an atheist, and lacking a belief does not imply a belief in a negation of that belief or the elimination of it. I merely lack a belief.


Holding a "negative, eliminative belief" is not the same as lacking a belief.


I think it could be more accurately worded to "I don't believe..." rather than "I don't say..." if that helps.

*smacks knee*
Now there's a discussion I would like to have. But I have to get back to work. Will respond later.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If you believe there is a god you are a theist. If you believe there is no god you are an atheist if you "don't say. .." then you don't say what you are.

*smacks knee*
Now there's a discussion I would like to have. But I have to get back to work. Will respond later.

*smacks face*

I look forward to it!

Also, ow...