I need to be a nonbeliever to set myself free. Could someone help me?

[Deeje]

Before I continue, I would like to say that I think it is nonsense to think of God as an entity that demands you to serve and obey his every single command and to literally live like a slave to him, or be condemned. I think it is more accurate to think of God as some form of sustenance like spiritual water. He is there to sustain you with joy and bliss and you can drink from him anytime. Just as how water does not expect you to obey it and serve it, God also doesn't either. He is just there like water. He is there to sustain you all he can.

You appear to be like an ant on a railway track shaking his fist at the approaching locomotive.

The one who gave you life has a right to demand something from you...like obedience to his rules. His commands are not difficult. He also has a right to impose penalties for those who don't want to live as he asks. Its his planet.

What makes life so hard for you? Jesus said that the greater happiness is achieved by giving, rather than receiving.
More people today are miserable because all they see is what they want.....they are entitled receivers, not generous givers and that is why they are never happy. Selfishness = misery.

Simple.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You appear to be like an ant on a railway track shaking his fist at the approaching locomotive.

The one who gave you life has a right to demand something from you...like obedience to his rules. His commands are not difficult. He also has a right to impose penalties for those who don't want to live as he asks. Its his planet.

What makes life so hard for you? Jesus said that the greater happiness is achieved by giving, rather than receiving.
More people today are miserable because all they see is what they want.....they are entitled receivers, not generous givers and that is why they are never happy. Selfishness = misery.

Simple.

It's the exact opposite for me. Living my life giving is what makes me miserable while living the life I want makes me happy. I just can't stand it when someone or some being imposes upon and dictates my life. All I want is to just be left all alone to live as I want and to be happy as I want. If I die and that is it, then I won't have to worry. There is no need to complain. But if I am doomed to hell, then this is a serious problem. However, at the same time, I am not willing to dedicate my life to a God who might not even exist in the first place.

To call me immature since I don't want to serve or dedicate my life to a God or in giving to others is nonsense. It would be no different than saying that I am immature since I don't want to dedicate my life to construction working, teaching, or dentistry. Those are careers (ways of living) I have no interest or value in. Living my life to serve God and in giving is no different. It is also a way of living I have no value or interest in. Living as such would make me miserable because, again, these are ways of living I have no interest or value in. I would be expected and forced to live a way of life that isn't worth living to me.

It's for that very reason why I would also never become a father and have children. This would mean that I would have to dedicate my life to my wife and children. But I am only here to be happy, have a wonderful life, and to live my personal life I want.

 

[SomeRandom]

Before I continue, I would like to say that I think it is nonsense to think of God as an entity that demands you to serve and obey his every single command and to literally live like a slave to him, or be condemned. I think it is more accurate to think of God as some form of sustenance like spiritual water. He is there to sustain you with joy and bliss and you can drink from him anytime. Just as how water does not expect you to obey it and serve it, God also doesn't either. He is just there like water. He is there to sustain you all he can.

Quite the Eastern approach to God. But most theologies will inevitably have some form of "master slave" type relationship with their deity/s. Otherwise there would be no real reason for theists to worship. Why worship something if one is not going to listen to any of their commands or suggestions?

I mean Hindus for example (speaking generally) view "disobedience' more like a bit of mischief rather than something to be condemned. Depending on the transgression. So there are more relaxed theological views of the relationship between humans and God out there.
But given how Christianity tends to view human transgressions (sin) more gravely and more clear cut than the Dharmics and maybe some Pagans and Heathens (correct me if I'm wrong, guys) I don't know how many chill Christian sects one might find.

 

[SomeRandom]

Sometimes the messengers do not have the appearance of heralds....no trumpet or anything.
Some people treat them like.....

Jesus said to expect this though.

JW.ORG is a good resource if you want to know more...or you can just ask me.



No "afterlife" as in life after death with an immortal part of ourselves floating off somewhere. The Bible has never taught that.

A return to life for those who have died is by resurrection.....that is a complete restoration of their previous life. Jesus and his apostles gave a demonstration of that in the first century. The most famous one is of course Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? Jesus said he was "sleeping".

Healing of all maladies and disabilities was also demonstrated so that people would know what to expect when God's kingdom rules this earth in the near future.

There is a judgment coming that we believe is not too far away, when Jesus will manifest himself unexpectedly to sort the obedient ones from the unbelievers and the unfaithful. ("Wheat from weeds")

It goes something like this....
2 Thessalonians 1: 6-9:
"This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.
6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength"

So we believe that a time of great trouble is coming, the likes of which have never been seen on earth, and that it will result in this judgment....a separating of the "sheep" from the "goats" or as the apostle Paul outlines above, eliminating from existence 'those who don't know God' because they don't want to know him, and 'those who know him but do not obey him'.

Since the Bible indicates that "few" are actually on the road to life, a lot of people will come under those two categories.
(Matthew 7:13, 14)

Very informative. Thank you for my indulging curiosity.
And, in your honor, I promise not to prank any JWs who come a knocking............maybe

 

[Deeje]

Quite the Eastern approach to God. But most theologies will inevitably have some form of "master slave" type relationship with their deity/s. Otherwise there would be no real reason for theists to worship. Why worship something if one is not going to listen to any of their commands or suggestions?

I mean Hindus for example (speaking generally) view "disobedience' more like a bit of mischief rather than something to be condemned. Depending on the transgression. So there are more relaxed theological views of the relationship between humans and God out there.
But given how Christianity tends to view human transgressions (sin) more gravely and more clear cut than the Dharmics and maybe some Pagans and Heathens (correct me if I'm wrong, guys) I don't know how many chill Christian sects one might find.

Sounds like you are recommending a supermarket that has the best "specials".

Very informative. Thank you for my indulging curiosity.

Not a problem. Pass on my good wishes to my sisters when they call next time.

And, in your honor, I promise not to prank any JWs who come a knocking............maybe

Promise?

God is watching ya know.......

LOL

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Sounds like you are recommending a supermarket that has the best "specials".

Not a problem. Pass on my good wishes to my sisters when they call next time.

And, in your honor, I promise not to prank any JWs who come a knocking............maybe [/quote]

Promise?

God is watching ya know.......

LOL[/quote]

When you get the time, go ahead and respond to my recent reply I made to you.

 

[SomeRandom]

Sounds like you are recommending a supermarket that has the best "specials".

Well,.......yeah lol. That's usually how a lot of the Dharmics view religion, more or less. Well it's how I approach religion anyway. We are not interested in man built barriers or walls between God and worship. Only what works with the individual. A person's choice is their choice.
Besides the OP is the one who is searching for answers. I merely offered a suggestion. They are free to do with that as they please. I ain't in the business of converting people to anything.

Not a problem. Pass on my good wishes to my sisters when they call next time.

Shall do!

Promise?

God is watching ya know.......

LOL

Well, I promise to try not to prank anyone
Besides I'm sure God has a sense of humor. He must do, I mean have you seen the Platypus!!!

 

[Deeje]

Sorry Matt, I missed this....

It's the exact opposite for me. Living my life giving is what makes me miserable while living the life I want makes me happy.

Perhaps we need to clarify what you mean by "giving" in this instance....? If all this "giving" is making you miserable, then something is radically wrong.

What is the life you want, but can't have?

Please help me understand....

I just can't stand it when someone or some being imposes upon and dictates my life. All I want is to just be left all alone to live as I want and to be happy as I want.

What impositions are you referring to...can you be more specific? Its hard to know what to say if I don't understand your position.

If I die and that is it, then I won't have to worry. There is no need to complain. But if I am doomed to hell, then this is a serious problem. However, at the same time, I am not willing to dedicate my life to a God who might not even exist in the first place.

To call me immature since I don't want to serve or dedicate my life to a God or in giving to others is nonsense. It would be no different than saying that I am immature since I don't want to dedicate my life to construction working, teaching, or dentistry. Those are careers (ways of living) I have no interest or value in. Living my life to serve God and in giving is no different. It is also a way of living I have no value or interest in. Living as such would make me miserable because, again, these are ways of living I have no interest or value in. I would be expected and forced to live a way of life that isn't worth living to me.

Let me get this straight......you don't want God to tell you how to live but if there is a God, you are scared stiff he is going to send you to hell? For doing what? What a dilemma! Can I ask you what religious system instilled this awful fear of eternal torment? You have to understand that Christ never taught this. "Gehenna" is not eternal conscious torture...it is eternal unconscious sleep out of which no one will wake up. That is the very worst outcome for any human according to the scriptures. Most people do not go to gehenna...they go to hades, which is just sleeping peacefully in the grave, waiting for Jesus to wake them up (John 5:28-29).

The Bible paints a completely different picture of God to the one you seem to have. The God you describe seems to walk around with a clip board marking down even minor misdemeanors so that he has an excuse to torture us for all eternity....!!! Good grief....who could love or serve a God like that!?

I would like to introduce you to my God....he is nothing like the one you seem so terrified of.

It's for that very reason why I would also never become a father and have children.

So because you can barely take responsibility for yourself, I understand why that seems so daunting.

This would mean that I would have to dedicate my life to my wife and children. But I am only here to be happy, have a wonderful life, and to live my personal life I want.

And you wonder why I call you immature....?

Does that really describe anyone's life in this world? What is this wonderful, happy life that you are chasing but can't seem to achieve because of all your hang ups....who gave these hangups to you? Who or what has messed you up so badly?

 

[Deeje]

Well,.......yeah lol. That's usually how a lot of the Dharmics view religion, more or less. Well it's how I approach religion anyway. We are not interested in man built barriers or walls between God and worship. Only what works with the individual. A person's choice is their choice.

Any particular branch of the Dharmic tree you like to hang from?

Well, I promise to try not to prank anyone

How is your self-control?

Besides I'm sure God has a sense of humor. He must do, I mean have you seen the Platypus!!!

Have I seen a platypus....????

Have you seen these....????

Could be one or two photo-shopped here......?

 

[SomeRandom]

Any particular branch of the Dharmic tree you like to hang from?

Ehh, Shaktism (Hindu) kind of.

How is your self-control?

Hmmm... *Looks at all the superfluous geeky crap I've bought on a whim.* Probably not that great

Have I seen a platypus....????

Have you seen these....????

Could be one or two photo-shopped here......?

Ahh the rare Owl Koalas and Butterfly Elephant. Rare delicacies in some countries.

 

[Deeje]

Ehh, Shaktism (Hindu) kind of.

And this shapes your view of the world better than Christianity?....or just better than Catholicism?

Never understood how any of that stuff was Christian.

Hmmm... *Looks at all the superfluous geeky crap I've bought on a whim.* Probably not that great

Ah yes, materialism....everyone's other 'religion'.

Ahh the rare Owl Koalas and Butterfly Elephant. Rare delicacies in some countries.

Mmmm last night's dinner....

Yum!

Dessert was delicious too...

You didn't recognize my Uncle Frank in the middle.....

This is him after his rhinoplasty.....great job eh!

Trouble is, now he thinks he looks like Brad Pitt.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Perhaps we need to clarify what you mean by "giving" in this instance....? If all this "giving" is making you miserable, then something is radically wrong.

Thanks for responding back. Me living to give to others would be me living an altruistic lifestyle as opposed to the life I have and always want to live which is a life where I live for myself, enjoy my hobbies, try to achieve my composing dream so that I can get my music recognized and praised by others, and am happy and free of misery. A life that is the opposite of that would make me miserable and wouldn't be a life worth living. It would be a life completely devoid of all joy and meaning to me.

What is the life you want, but can't have?

Please help me understand....

It is the life I have always lived my whole entire life. It is the life I just described to you above. If there is a God and I have to dedicate my life to him, then that would mean I would have to give up the things that I want to live for and enjoy. I would have to instead live for others and bring them joy rather than living for myself and the things I enjoy.

What impositions are you referring to...can you be more specific? Its hard to know what to say if I don't understand your position.

The impositions are mentioned above. I would be restricted from living for my own self, my own happiness, and the things I personally value and enjoy.

Let me get this straight......you don't want God to tell you how to live but if there is a God, you are scared stiff he is going to send you to hell? For doing what? What a dilemma! Can I ask you what religious system instilled this awful fear of eternal torment? You have to understand that Christ never taught this. "Gehenna" is not eternal conscious torture...it is eternal unconscious sleep out of which no one will wake up. That is the very worst outcome for any human according to the scriptures. Most people do not go to gehenna...they go to hades, which is just sleeping peacefully in the grave, waiting for Jesus to wake them up (John 5:28-29).

The Bible paints a completely different picture of God to the one you seem to have. The God you describe seems to walk around with a clip board marking down even minor misdemeanors so that he has an excuse to torture us for all eternity....!!! Good grief....who could love or serve a God like that!?

I would like to introduce you to my God....he is nothing like the one you seem so terrified of.

That is the God most Christiants agree with and worship. There are many different views of God and the afterlife and there is just simply no way for me to know which one is actually real. You can explain your personal view all you want, but I will still be left undecided.

And you wonder why I call you immature....?

Does that really describe anyone's life in this world? What is this wonderful, happy life that you are chasing but can't seem to achieve because of all your hang ups....who gave these hangups to you? Who or what has messed you up so badly?

Like I said, it is the life I have always lived and it is the notion of this Christian God who would be taking that away from me and condemning me.

 

[Deeje]

Thanks for responding back. Me living to give to others would be me living an altruistic lifestyle as opposed to the life I have and always want to live which is a life where I live for myself, enjoy my hobbies, try to achieve my composing dream so that I can get my music recognized and praised by others, and am happy and free of misery. A life that is the opposite of that would make me miserable and wouldn't be a life worth living. It would be a life completely devoid of all joy and meaning to me.

I am looking for the man with the big stick making you do anything.

Do you not have free will? Do you believe that chasing after dreams automatically leads to happiness? Sometimes they are the stuff of nightmares when expectations are not realized. Can you handle that?
It seems to me that the internet is full of people chasing the dream that you appear to be seeking.
Is your dream real? Are you good enough to survive in such a competitive environment? Are you psychologically prepared for failure? What if there is no praise, but only derision? I have seen so many shattered dreams on TV talent shows to understand that only the very best survive. Are you one of the very best? If not, you will get trampled underfoot. Its a cut-throat industry, full of fake people with fake lives and fake happiness.

It is the life I have always lived my whole entire life. It is the life I just described to you above. If there is a God and I have to dedicate my life to him, then that would mean I would have to give up the things that I want to live for and enjoy. I would have to instead live for others and bring them joy rather than living for myself and the things I enjoy.

Can you tell me why God would expect you to give up everything you love, like hobbies? The only way that would happen is if you chose to deliberately break God's laws in this life that you want the freedom to live. Dedicating yourself to God does not mean giving up on being yourself. It simply means putting first things first. There is room for dreams that are reasonable, rather than fantasies that will never materialize. Don't just set yourself up for more disappointment.

Let me put it this way.....if you don't love God with all your heart and are only going through the motions to please others, then he already knows it. If your heart is not in sinc with your Creator and you want to pursue a totally selfish existence, apart from him, then he already knows that too. God will never force anyone to serve him, or to love him or even to believe in him. Those are our choices. There is no "insurance" with this life. The only two choices we have before us are life or death....that's it. What God offers is an opportunity to live a wonderful life in the new world to come, but it requires us to keep the right view of this one. If you want to make this world your choice, then go for it...you only get one shot. Pretending to be someone you are not, will not get you everlasting life, nor will it make this life satisfying.
No performance on your part will earn you a place in God's kingdom.

As the apostle Paul said....
"For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up.  Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins.  In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished.  If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied.

If the dead are not to be raised up, “let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die.”" ( 1 Cor 15:16-19; 32)

Without God there is no future.

The impositions are mentioned above. I would be restricted from living for my own self, my own happiness, and the things I personally value and enjoy.

Why? At your age, are you not free to live as you please? Being in dread of God's punishment will not get you life, because no amount of performance will mean anything to God if your heart is not in it. You will never love a God you do not know or respect. I see that you are lacking in both of those very important areas.....would you like to get to know him? If you really knew him, you would learn to love him...but only if you want to.

That is the God most Christians agree with and worship.

I used to be one of those Christians....I escaped to find the real God whose personality was reflected in the person of Jesus Christ.
It was the best decision I ever made because I never loved the church, but I always loved God and I always respected his word.

There are many different views of God and the afterlife and there is just simply no way for me to know which one is actually real. You can explain your personal view all you want, but I will still be left undecided.

Matt, if God is not leading you, he is not with you anyway. (John 6:44) When God "draws" a person, he is virtually irresistible.
Jesus said we would "know the truth" when we heard it, and it would "set us free"...you seem to exhibit the kind of slavery that traps people in a web of fear. God doesn't want you to fear him.....he wants you to get to know him....not as the churches paint him, but as Christ portrayed him. I believe that the people who shaped your view of him, did a really lousy job of teaching you about him.

Like I said, it is the life I have always lived and it is the notion of this Christian God who would be taking that away from me and condemning me.

That is not the God of the Bible.....I wish I could introduce you to him. He is nothing like the god you describe.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I need to be a nonbeliever to set myself free. Could someone help me?

Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. But, who has the truth to free this disgruntling shout for help? "The Law and the Prophets, if you don't speak according to this word, it is because you don't have the Truth in you." (Isaiah 8:20 - KJV) If this does not help you, you are beyond help.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am looking for the man with the big stick making you do anything.

Do you not have free will? Do you believe that chasing after dreams automatically leads to happiness? Sometimes they are the stuff of nightmares when expectations are not realized. Can you handle that?
It seems to me that the internet is full of people chasing the dream that you appear to be seeking.
Is your dream real? Are you good enough to survive in such a competitive environment? Are you psychologically prepared for failure? What if there is no praise, but only derision? I have seen so many shattered dreams on TV talent shows to understand that only the very best survive. Are you one of the very best? If not, you will get trampled underfoot. Its a cut-throat industry, full of fake people with fake lives and fake happiness.



Can you tell me why God would expect you to give up everything you love, like hobbies? The only way that would happen is if you chose to deliberately break God's laws in this life that you want the freedom to live. Dedicating yourself to God does not mean giving up on being yourself. It simply means putting first things first. There is room for dreams that are reasonable, rather than fantasies that will never materialize. Don't just set yourself up for more disappointment.

Let me put it this way.....if you don't love God with all your heart and are only going through the motions to please others, then he already knows it. If your heart is not in sinc with your Creator and you want to pursue a totally selfish existence, apart from him, then he already knows that too. God will never force anyone to serve him, or to love him or even to believe in him. Those are our choices. There is no "insurance" with this life. The only two choices we have before us are life or death....that's it. What God offers is an opportunity to live a wonderful life in the new world to come, but it requires us to keep the right view of this one. If you want to make this world your choice, then go for it...you only get one shot. Pretending to be someone you are not, will not get you everlasting life, nor will it make this life satisfying.
No performance on your part will earn you a place in God's kingdom.

As the apostle Paul said....
"For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up.  Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins.  In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished.  If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied.

If the dead are not to be raised up, “let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die.”" ( 1 Cor 15:16-19; 32)

Without God there is no future.



Why? At your age, are you not free to live as you please? Being in dread of God's punishment will not get you life, because no amount of performance will mean anything to God if your heart is not in it. You will never love a God you do not know or respect. I see that you are lacking in both of those very important areas.....would you like to get to know him? If you really knew him, you would learn to love him...but only if you want to.



I used to be one of those Christians....I escaped to find the real God whose personality was reflected in the person of Jesus Christ.
It was the best decision I ever made because I never loved the church, but I always loved God and I always respected his word.



Matt, if God is not leading you, he is not with you anyway. (John 6:44) When God "draws" a person, he is virtually irresistible.
Jesus said we would "know the truth" when we heard it, and it would "set us free"...you seem to exhibit the kind of slavery that traps people in a web of fear. God doesn't want you to fear him.....he wants you to get to know him....not as the churches paint him, but as Christ portrayed him. I believe that the people who shaped your view of him, did a really lousy job of teaching you about him.



That is not the God of the Bible.....I wish I could introduce you to him. He is nothing like the god you describe.

You are right, my heart is just simply not in it to serve and live for a God or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, it is no different to me than construction working, teaching, or dentistry. Those are ways of living I have no interest in and for anyone to frown upon me for not dedicating my life to God would be no different than someone frowning upon me since I am not dedicating my life to any of those careers I have no interest in.

Lastly, if there is a God, then an all loving and an all just God would be someone who is universally compatible. He would not be hated and rejected by many people. For example, the Christian God who condemns people for their way of living and sends them to hell would be a God hated by many people. He is not universally compatible.

But a God who is completely fine with your way of living as long as it does not harm others, then I think this would be the perfect God. Almost everyone would accept and agree with him. So that is what would make him a universally accepted God. Wouldn't you agree that a perfect all loving and all just God would be someone who is universally compatible?

 

[Deeje]

You are right, my heart is just simply not in it to serve and live for a God or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, it is no different to me than construction working, teaching, or dentistry. Those are ways of living I have no interest in and for anyone to frown upon me for not dedicating my life to God would be no different than someone frowning upon me since I am not dedicating my life to any of those careers I have no interest in.

Then your heart has made the choice for you. What is standing in your way? As Paul said, you may as well "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die". If this life is the only one you are interested in, then live it. It's yours to do with as you wish. There is nothing more sinister in the end of it than death. No one can force another person to love them....not even God. But if he has been misrepresented to you all your life, then your decision not to love or serve him is based on misinformation. What if he is worthy of your love and devotion and you've formed your opinion of him from others who don't really know him either. Fear of "hell" is something the early church introduced...not Jesus. It was a ploy to keep the ignorant masses in subjection. Fear is negative..love is positive.

Lastly, if there is a God, then an all loving and an all just God would be someone who is universally compatible. He would not be hated and rejected by many people. For example, the Christian God who condemns people for their way of living and sends them to hell would be a God hated by many people. He is not universally compatible.

Yahweh is a God whose cardinal qualities are love, justice, wisdom and power. None of those qualities is out of balance in relation to the other. God's principle quality is love, which is demonstrated in his justice because the exercise of justice is necessary for happiness. Those who have been treated unjustly feel bad about it, so when justice is served, the weight of the injustice is lifted from a person's heart.

God's wisdom is also based on love, which is why a hell of eternal torment is impossible for a loving God to even contemplate. (Jer 7:31) How could a God of love take some kind of perverse pleasure in the eternal suffering of anyone, let alone sin laden people who had no choice in the matter. (Romans 5:12) He loved humans enough to send his precious son to suffer and die to pay the debt that Adam left for his children.

God's power is such that he could deconstruct the entire universe with a word if he chose to do so, but he has always exercised his power in a controlled fashion. Justice demands the death of every sinner, but in his wisdom and love, Yahweh made the way to forgive every one of them without making unnecessary demands.
His rules are simple, not complicated. But if our fallen human nature makes obedience difficult, God provides his spirit to strengthen our resolve to do better.

This is the God I know, whose compassion and love was reflected in the person of Jesus Christ.

But a God who is completely fine with your way of living as long as it does not harm others, then I think this would be the perfect God.

Let me use an illustration for this point....if you had a child that you loved more than your own life, would indulging their every desire make you a good parent? Would that indulgence make that child into a responsible adult, capable of handling any situation in life in a mature way? In recent years it has been discerned that praising children who did not deserve it, and overindulgingvthem with material things, made them into whining adults who could not handle rejection and who fell into tantrums when they could not get what they wanted. Who likes being around people like that?

Almost everyone would accept and agree with him. So that is what would make him a universally accepted God.

The Bible tells us that there is another "god" who is in an adversarial role with the true God. This rival 'wannabe' god taunted the Creator in the beginning, and called him a liar, misrepresenting him to the woman, who in turn, influenced the man into following a course of rebellion. This pretender has the ability to sell his lies to the majority of people by appealing to selfish desires. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) He can "blind the minds" of those who think God is the despot he has made him out to be. Do you see why the Creator will never be this "universally accepted God"? The devil will never allow God to be portrayed as the person he is....only as the distorted character he has invented.

Wouldn't you agree that a perfect all loving and all just God would be someone who is universally compatible?

He is already "universally compatible" with those whose hearts are drawn to him....both in heaven and on earth. These ones love him with all their hearts, having seen through the devil's lies and having come to know the God and Father of Jesus Christ the way he truly is. He offers all equal opportunity to get to know him, but he will not change his standards for anyone. We must change to adopt his standards.....but he not force anyone to do anything against their will.

You seem to want God to conform to the standard you set...I can tell you now, that he never will. We have to conform to his standards if we desire to live the life that he is offering. You see, the first humans wanting to do things "their way" is what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Let me use an illustration for this point....if you had a child that you loved more than your own life, would indulging their every desire make you a good parent? Would that indulgence make that child into a responsible adult, capable of handling any situation in life in a mature way? In recent years it has been discerned that praising children who did not deserve it, and overindulgingvthem with material things, made them into whining adults who could not handle rejection and who fell into tantrums when they could not get what they wanted. Who likes being around people like that?

Yes, that would make me an excellent parent. As long as the child is a kind person not harming and torturing innocent people, then I would allow that child to live and indulge all he/she wants to. It would be wrong of me to intervene in this child's life and expect him/her to dedicate his/her life to something he/she has no interest or value in.

If I tried to force a way of life he/she has no interest in and if he/she were to complain about that, then I would not deem that as immature. He/she has every right to do so because why be a slave to a way of living you have no interest and value in? But if this child was indulging in things that would be harmful for him/her such as eating too much candy everyday, then I would warn the child out of kindness. If this child was living in such a way that could harm and torture others (such as shooting beebee guns at people), then I would also expect the child to stop.

So it is only those things that are absolutely necessary that I would make sure the child adheres to. But, to me, it is absolutely unnecessary for me (the child) to be expected by God (the parent) to dedicate my life to him and serve him since it is a way of life I have no interest or value in. It is not something necessary such as the situation I posited with the candy or beebee gun because my way of life does not pose any harm towards myself or towards anyone else.

Situations that I consider necessary for obedience are of the following types:

"Helping mother when she is sick and asks you to, refrain from ways of living that harm and torture other innocent people, refrain from ways of living that harm/torture yourself (although, in some situation such as people wanting to smoke who have decided they want to do that knowing the harm it could cause them, I would allow that and would not judge them since it is their lives and they can do whatever they want with it), changing your clothes, brushing your teeth, doing a certain deed that only you could do that your parents cannot do (which would be a deed that your parents expect you to do to help them out such as opening a door when they are unable to. These parents are a part of your lives and to disobey something like this would get you rejection from your own family which hardly makes the situation optional)."

Situations that I consider unnecessary for obedience are of the following types:

"Being expected to pursue a career you have no interest or value in, being expected to live a certain way you don't want and don't value, being expected to act, talk, and behave a certain way when your default behavior poses no harm or threat, being expected to live your life helping and serving others when it is an optional situation, being expected to help your family when it is deeds they can easily do themselves and isn't something out of their way (such as cleaning the dishes, washing clothes, cooking dinner, etc.), being expected to refrain from selfish desires and cravings when such desires and cravings pose no harm or threat towards yourself and others, being expected to wear certain clothes that don't express your personality when the clothes that you normally wear pose no harm or threat, being expected to not get the things you want that you or your family can easily afford."

Being expected to dedicate your life and serve a certain religion/God also falls into this category of situations that are unnecessary for obedience. It is not right at all for any God to make serving him an unavoidable situation by threatening you with hell. He should make it a completely optional situation and be just fine if you choose not to live for him. He should bring you up to heaven as long as you are not harming and torturing other innocent people. If you were, then he should torment you for some time until the debt is paid off.

The Bible tells us that there is another "god" who is in an adversarial role with the true God. This rival 'wannabe' god taunted the Creator in the beginning, and called him a liar, misrepresenting him to the woman, who in turn, influenced the man into following a course of rebellion. This pretender has the ability to sell his lies to the majority of people by appealing to selfish desires. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) He can "blind the minds" of those who think God is the despot he has made him out to be. Do you see why the Creator will never be this "universally accepted God"? The devil will never allow God to be portrayed as the person he is....only as the distorted character he has invented.

I personally think though that my personal God I've invented who is completely fine with your way of living as long as it does not pose any harm, I think this would be the perfect moral God.

He is already "universally compatible" with those whose hearts are drawn to him....both in heaven and on earth. These ones love him with all their hearts, having seen through the devil's lies and having come to know the God and Father of Jesus Christ the way he truly is. He offers all equal opportunity to get to know him, but he will not change his standards for anyone. We must change to adopt his standards.....but he not force anyone to do anything against their will.

You seem to want God to conform to the standard you set...I can tell you now, that he never will. We have to conform to his standards if we desire to live the life that he is offering. You see, the first humans wanting to do things "their way" is what got us into this mess in the first place.

It baffles me why a perfect God would expect us to confirm to his expectations and standards when a person's way of living that he/she wants to live poses no harm or threat towards anyone.

 

[Deeje]

It baffles me why a perfect God would expect us to confirm to his expectations and standards when a person's way of living that he/she wants to live poses no harm or threat towards anyone.

If you want to worship the god you have invented, then I see no reason why you can't...millions of people already do. But I would really like to know what kinds of "expectations and standards" you mean here. Can you be specific as to what you are doing that merits condemnation? What "way of living" that poses "no harm or threat to anyone" are you talking about?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

If you want to worship the god you have invented, then I see no reason why you can't...millions of people already do. But I would really like to know what kinds of "expectations and standards" you mean here. Can you be specific as to what you are doing that merits condemnation? What "way of living" that poses "no harm or threat to anyone" are you talking about?

Living to be happy and to enjoy your life and hobbies is the way of life that poses no harm or threat to anyone. That is the way of life I am living. The expectations and standards of this God is that we don't live that way. That we instead live to serve and obey him. I pointed out in my previous post how this expectation is completely unnecessary and fell into the category of situations that are unnecessary for obedience. I think people should get into heaven simply because they are kind and harmless individuals. I would fall into that category.

 

[Deeje]

Living to be happy and to enjoy your life and hobbies is the way of life that poses no harm or threat to anyone. That is the way of life I am living. The expectations and standards of this God is that we don't live that way.

Who told you that?

That we instead live to serve and obey him. I pointed out in my previous post how this expectation is completely unnecessary and fell into the category of situations that are unnecessary for obedience. I think people should get into heaven simply because they are kind and harmless individuals. I would fall into that category.

Who told you you were going to heaven? That wasn't even in God's original purpose. Biblical Christianity is not what is taught in Christendom.