I got sick of being a christian

[PureX]

"God" made us that way.

To me, that's the real Problem of Evil. God continuing to make humans stupid and mean.
Tom

Why do you believe this? I don't.

 

[ChristineM]

I am so pleased to learn this about you ChristineM. Now it all makes sense. Your history is very much like my own but without the dyslexia. I learned about that from my husband and grandson.

Your story is not an uncommon one concerning the church system back in the day. It hopefully wouldn’t happen today because learning disabilities are recognized and acknowledged to have no connection to a child's intelligence....and certainly not something to mock...but we know how cruel kids can be....what is inexcusable is when the ignorance comes from adults. Not that the school system addresses it successfully even now, but at least they know what it is.

Your experience is a sad one because your enthusiasm was crushed by heartless humans who did not in any way reflect the attitude of the one whose “church” they claim to represent.

I am glad you left that situation, but saddened that you ‘threw the baby out with the bath water’.

I went looking for God elsewhere because I always knew he was there, but just not in the hypocritical church system.
I had a great love for the Bible as well and always wondered what it taught about everything....I had so many questions that never got answered....until I met JW's. What I learned from the Bible was nothing sort of amazing!.

I was glad I ditched the church, but doubly glad that I found God somewhere I never expected to find him...

What began my path to atheism was not really church. But learning to read, i read the bible and found all the hatred infesting the congregation in there. What a learning tool is the bible when one chooses to assymilate the bad

 

[ChristineM]

Doesn't this sort of thing just drive you away from the Church, though, rather than God?

I get that the two can be somewhat merged (particularly in the mind of a youth) and there is some very broad similarity in my story. But when I got a little older I did...I dunno...re-examine my beliefs to see if it was God I didn't believe in, or if it was merely the religious beliefs of those around me I wasn't in alignment with.

(turned out it was both, but still...premise holds, I think)

As you said 'hence began my path to atheism' and that certainly makes sense. But I'm assuming there's a little more to the journey right?

There is quite a lot more. Some i cannot post and still have occasion nightmares about. But reading the bible unlocked the door

 

[lewisnotmiller]

There is quite a lot more. Some i cannot post and still have occasion nightmares about. But reading the bible unlocked the door

I was in CEBS...kinda Church of England Cubs. I was lucky, but some other boy in my church weren't. You ever wanna PM, you know where to find me.

 

[ChristineM]

I was in CEBS...kinda Church of England Cubs. I was lucky, but some other boy in my church weren't. You ever wanna PM, you know where to find me.

Cheers my friend, appreciated.

 

[metis]

The service I like the most is the Quakers (Society of Friends). (My private school was run by Quakers, so I have attended -- including at the very beautiful Sharon Temple, which was only a few miles from my school. Essentially, the community gathers, pretty much nothing happens, somebody may decide they have something of interest to say, but usually not, then everybody shakes hands and leaves.

The nice thing about that is that you can do it at home...

Ya, I was at a Quaker meeting house in the D.C. area about 30 years ago whereas they told us what they generally believe and how their "services" generally went. Very interesting, as well as is their amazing history.

BTW, remember "Belief-O-Matic"? My closest correlation was with "liberal Quaker", and ya can't be any more liberal than that and still be in the same "ballpark".

 

[Deeje]

What began my path to atheism was not really church. But learning to read, i read the bible and found all the hatred infesting the congregation in there. What a learning tool is the bible when one chooses to assymilate the bad

Reading the Bible does not of itself unlock its treasures. It depends in large measure on what you are looking for in there. If you were looking for an excuse to divorce yourself from God because of the behavior of those who claimed to serve him, then perhaps concentrating on what you perceived to be bad, gave you the justification you were looking for?

It’s a bit like meeting someone who has a bad reputation.....do you look for the good in them or do you seek to confirm the bad? What if the bad reputation was the product of a slanderer with a hateful agenda towards that person and everything they said about him was lies or twisted half truths? How would you know?

You have to consider the times and the culture of the people who lived in them back then. Presenting himself as weaker than the gods of the nations would have been demoralising to his own people and an invitation to invasion. They were violent times. God’s people did not seek war with any nation, but did defend their own land. They sometimes had to demonstrate the superiority of their God when routing an enemy because victories were attributed to the power of their gods.

When rebellion surfaced inside the nation of Israel itself, God also demonstrated that he would not tolerate dissenters or those who wanted to implement their own agendas in opposition to his clearly stated purpose.

What were the things that you considered so “bad” in your estimations? Can you be specific?

 

[ChristineM]

Reading the Bible does not of itself unlock its treasures. It depends in large measure on what you are looking for in there. If you were looking for an excuse to divorce yourself from God because of the behavior of those who claimed to serve him, then perhaps concentrating on what you perceived to be bad, gave you the justification you were looking for?

It’s a bit like meeting someone who has a bad reputation.....do you look for the good in them or do you seek to confirm the bad? What if the bad reputation was the product of a slanderer with a hateful agenda towards that person and everything they said about him was lies or twisted half truths? How would you know?

You have to consider the times and the culture of the people who lived in them back then. Presenting himself as weaker than the gods of the nations would have been demoralising to his own people and an invitation to invasion. They were violent times. God’s people did not seek war with any nation, but did defend their own land. They sometimes had to demonstrate the superiority of their God when routing an enemy because victories were attributed to the power of their gods.

When rebellion surfaced inside the nation of Israel itself, God also demonstrated that he would not tolerate dissenters or those who wanted to implement their own agendas in opposition to his clearly stated purpose.

What were the things that you considered so “bad” in your estimations? Can you be specific?

You have to understand that the bible was the second book i ever read following the diagnosis. I read it as a book, cover to cover. No cherry picking favourite verses or verses that confirmed what i was looking for.

What i saw was genocide, murder, rape, war, theft, slavery (including sex slavery), deception.

 

[Deeje]

You have to understand that the bible was the second book i ever read following the diagnosis. I read it as a book, cover to cover. No cherry picking favourite verses or verses that confirmed what i was looking for.

What i saw was genocide, murder, rape, war, theft, slavery (including sex slavery), deception.

I have to wonder if that is what you were looking for so that you could justify your ‘divorce’ from God? When you are raised with “God consciousness” it is very difficult to remove him from your psyche because our conscience is geared around not doing the wrong thing from his perspective. You had a strong incentive to lose that because of what you experienced.

Was there ever justification for what you saw as “genocide, murder, rape, war, theft, slavery (including sex slavery), deception”?....IOW, did you consider the circumstances at all, and did you take into consideration the background of what you were reading? Or did you read it with modern day sensitivities that certainly make many things recorded in the Bible appear to be barbaric?

The times dictate the sensitivities......just look at the things that were considered ‘indecent’ only a hundred years ago compared to now.....human standards can change drastically. I can see that God operated in the times according to the sensibilities of the day because the circumstances demanded it. I have studied the Bible at a deeper level than most of Christendom’s adherents bother to do, so this has opened up a deeper understanding of what I read.

The deeper I go, the more it makes sense.

 

[ChristineM]

I have to wonder if that is what you were looking for so that you could justify your ‘divorce’ from God? When you are raised with “God consciousness” it is very difficult to remove him from your psyche because our conscience is geared around not doing the wrong thing from his perspective. You had a strong incentive to lose that because of what you experienced.

Was there ever justification for what you saw as “genocide, murder, rape, war, theft, slavery (including sex slavery), deception”?....IOW, did you consider the circumstances at all, and did you take into consideration the background of what you were reading? Or did you read it with modern day sensitivities that certainly make many things recorded in the Bible appear to be barbaric?

The times dictate the sensitivities......just look at the things that were considered ‘indecent’ only a hundred years ago compared to now.....human standards can change drastically. I can see that God operated in the times according to the sensibilities of the day because the circumstances demanded it. I have studied the Bible at a deeper level than most of Christendom’s adherents bother to do, so this has opened up a deeper understanding of what I read.

The deeper I go, the more it makes sense.

Wonder whatever you want

I dont need apologetics to know murder and rape and sex slavery were as wrong then as now. Just because god done it it was done in the name of god does not make it right. On the contrary who would want to believe in a god that murdered everyone and everything? Who would want to worship a god who condones murder and rape?

Not me for sure

 

[Sand Dancer]

I was born into a mildly christian (CofE) family. Began sunday school as soon as i was able, unfortunately my inability to read was the brunt of many jokes. But i stuck it out, made some god friends and generally enjoyed learning about Jesus and before.

Age 11, i was formally allowed to attend church. I was so proud to be there with the adults, enthralled by the vicars sermon.

Each Sunday one of the youngsters would be chosen to learn a passage from the bible that they had to read out from the pulpit the following Sunday.

Being dyslexic and a bashful adolescent didn't prevent me being chosen. First i tried, asking my mother to read and reread the passage until i knew it by heart. But the exposure of pulpit made the words fly away leaving be mumbling and lost.

Still they said i must read from the bible and began to ridicule my inability. Over a few years the ridicule turned to open mockery.

Until eventually i got sick of it, walked out of church and never returned for a service since.

And hence began my path to atheism.

Does anyone else have a story of how church has impacted and chsnged their lives, either positively or negatively?

That's terrible! I am glad you left. My church experience made me a narrow minded and judgemental person, something I was not before I became a Christian. I left after 28 years about 5 years ago.

 

[ChristineM]

That's terrible! I am glad you left. My church experience made me a narrow minded and judgemental person, something I was not before I became a Christian. I left after 28 years about 5 years ago.

Christianity can have a good effect or a bad effect. When its good, people are happy, when its bad its the pits.

So bad that some refuse to acknowledge it or make excuses for it.

Hoping you are beating the indoctrination because it sounds like you got a heathy dose of it if it changed your personality like that.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Christianity can have a good effect or a bad effect. When its good, people are happy, when its bad its the pits.

So bad that some refuse to acknowledge it or make excuses for it.

Hoping you are beating the indoctrination because it sounds like you got a heathy dose of it if it changed your personality like that.

It took a while. It was insidious too. Ugh.

 

[Deeje]

Wonder whatever you want

I dont need apologetics to know murder and rape and sex slavery were as wrong then as now. Just because god done it it was done in the name of god does not make it right. On the contrary who would want to believe in a god that murdered everyone and everything? Who would want to worship a god who condones murder and rape?

Not me for sure

Can you show me in the Bible where it says that God condones murder or rape? I can show you where he doesn't.

You have apparently convinced yourself and don't want to know any different....that is entirely your choice...but put yourself in the place of the person who was slandered, using lies and twisted half truths (more damning that real truth) and ask if you'd like to present your side of the story? Can you use the Bible to condemn its author and justify your position if you have never considered the explanations of other side?

What if I told you that a man attacked a woman and caused her some serious bodily harm? You would condemn the man outright, demanding justice for the victim who had to spend time in hospital?....and feeling fully justified in doing so?

What if you then found out that the man tackled the woman to get her out of the path of a runaway truck? Are you still going to condemn him? Sure he caused her some harm, but he actually saved her life. Not everything is as it seems....not even in the Bible.

 

[Bird123]

I was born into a mildly christian (CofE) family. Began sunday school as soon as i was able, unfortunately my inability to read was the brunt of many jokes. But i stuck it out, made some god friends and generally enjoyed learning about Jesus and before.

Age 11, i was formally allowed to attend church. I was so proud to be there with the adults, enthralled by the vicars sermon.

Each Sunday one of the youngsters would be chosen to learn a passage from the bible that they had to read out from the pulpit the following Sunday.

Being dyslexic and a bashful adolescent didn't prevent me being chosen. First i tried, asking my mother to read and reread the passage until i knew it by heart. But the exposure of pulpit made the words fly away leaving be mumbling and lost.

Still they said i must read from the bible and began to ridicule my inability. Over a few years the ridicule turned to open mockery.

Until eventually i got sick of it, walked out of church and never returned for a service since.

And hence began my path to atheism.

Does anyone else have a story of how church has impacted and chsnged their lives, either positively or negatively?

Sadly, people can choose to be mean and hateful to others. Sometimes when one person hates, others just to jump on the bandwagon to be mean and hateful as well. It's almost as if one person does it, then it's ok.

I think some do it to make up for the mean things they experienced in life or to make up for what they deem lacking in themselves. They choose hard lessons for themselves. They do not realize the price for hate is always too high.

At age 11, this can hurt very badly, stealing one's self confidence and the healthy image of oneself.

No one can guaranty the actions of another. Further, I hope you do not hold onto your hurt for a lifetime. Let it go, for it is merely poison for the soul. Know that through this ordeal you are the Wise One for you do not copy their actions.

One acquires much knowledge after one becomes an adult. It is a surprise that no adult in that church placed the Truth out in the open and pointed them in the right direction. Yes, in time, there are lessons that will be learned by all. Clearly, it is needed.

You have all my Love and Kindness!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[MonkeyFire]

Just because the "church" betrayed us, doesnt mean we should betray Jesus. There is no such thing as a religion, just religion.

 

[ChristineM]

Can you show me in the Bible where it says that God condones murder or rape? I can show you where he doesn't.

You have apparently convinced yourself and don't want to know any different....that is entirely your choice...but put yourself in the place of the person who was slandered, using lies and twisted half truths (more damning that real truth) and ask if you'd like to present your side of the story? Can you use the Bible to condemn its author and justify your position if you have never considered the explanations of other side?

What if I told you that a man attacked a woman and caused he some serious bodily harm? You would condemn the man outright, demanding justice for the victim who had to spend time in hospital?....and feeling fully justified in doing so?

What if you then found out that the man tackled the woman to get her out of the path of a runaway truck? Are you still going to condemn him? Sure he caused her some harm, but he actually saved her life. Not everything is as it seems....not even in the Bible.

Ok, the flood. God committed genocide against the whole planet
Or how about devastating egypt and murderering all first born.
Or destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and all the inhabitants.

Or Numbers 31:9, do you think the Midianite women and children were treated humanly or perhaps, just perhaps used for slavery and sex? The bible doesnt enlighten us but the brutality of the period does

Or numbers 31:17-18. Kill em all except the animal's and virgin women, with gods blessing. (How did they know? A finger check then kill the women who didn't pass?

Same goes for Deuteronomy 20:13-14

No slander in there, its how the bible is written.

And what if i told you that straw men are just straw men?

Of course you can put your own interpretation on it, thats your prerogative, you can even excuse the violence and killing as 'ah well, different time' or 'god can do what he wants '

But dont expect me to be your mind

 

[ChristineM]

Just because the "church" betrayed us, doesnt mean we should betray Jesus. There is no such thing as a religion, just religion.

Religion made those people who they we're
And i see the same pn some posts

 

[Deeje]

Ok, the flood. God committed genocide against the whole planet

The flood was to rid the earth of the monstrous offspring of materialized rebel angels and human women. They were the "Nephilim" (Genesis 6) and they were responsible for the whole world of mankind going down a very wicked path of violence and immorality. The only righteous man of that time was Noah.

Because this action involved angelic creatures who had abused their God-given abilities in order to experience human pleasures, God had to create a vessel, (a safe haven) outside of which nothing could survive. The demon angels could have nothing of a material nature to cling to, so the flood eliminated any chance of them remaining in the world of that time. By destroying their offspring and all who followed their wicked course, God took out of existence, freakish humans of monstrous size and strength who had no right to exist, and forced their errant fathers back to the spirit realm where God thereafter placed them under restraint, by removing their ability to materialize. There is no mention of them doing so again.

It was not genocide but a drastic measure taken to stop the spread of that level of wickedness in the earth before God was due to bring in his Messiah. He started to populate the earth again with Noah sons and daughters in law. God had also hand picked the animals specimens that he had brought to Noah to place them on the ark. It just reset the world and put God's purpose back on track.

All the while that Noah was constructing the ark he preached to the people, but no one listened. There was room on that vessel for many more humans, but they chose to stay where they were, immersed in the lifestyle to which they had become accustomed....but soon to be immersed in a very different situation....and it was their own fault.

Or how about devastating egypt and murderering all first born.

Again, God gave Pharaoh every opportunity to agree to his request to release the Israelites from harsh slavery, but each time he brought one of the plagues, Pharaoh agreed to let them go, only to change his mind as soon as the plague stopped.
Each of those plagues was designed to humiliate one of Egypt's many gods.....this happened 10 times and on the last time God struck another of Egypt's principle gods...the Pharaoh himself. His successor was also to be treated like a god. The death of the firstborn was not murder because God alone has the right and power over life and death. Pharaoh had ten chances to stop it, but his pride wouldn't let him. This was Pharaoh's fault.

Or destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and all the inhabitants.

Abraham's bargaining with God over Sodom and Gomorrah proves that God was reasonable about these cities.
He had said that if there were any righteous people in the cities he would spare them.....Lot and his family were the only ones. (Genesis 18:22-33) God knew that there were no righteous people there, but patiently allowed Abraham to test him out. These people were incorrigibly wicked.

Or Numbers 31:9, do you think the Midianite women and children were treated humanly or perhaps, just perhaps used for slavery and sex? The bible doesnt enlighten us but the brutality of the period does.

Or numbers 31:17-18. Kill em all except the animal's and virgin women, with gods blessing. (How did they know? A finger check then kill the women who didn't pass?

The Midianites, who were distantly related to the Israelites cunningly used their women to induce thousands of Israelite males to become involved in sexual immorality and idolatry in connection with Baal of Peor. (Numbers 25:1-9; 14-18; 31:15-16; 1 Corinthians 10:8; Revelation 2:14) Thereafter the Israelites, in obedience to divine command, took vengeance upon Midian. The Midianite cities and walled camps in the area were consigned to the fire. Thousands of domestic animals and many gold articles were taken as spoils. With the exception of the virgins, all, including the five kings of Midian were put to death. (Numbers 31)

Again it was a divine command and it was carried out with his sanction. God does not need our approval or opinions about his right as Universal Sovereign to conduct his business as he sees fit. It was the time and the circumstances of the day and nothing whatever to do with the sensibilities of today's world.

Same goes for Deuteronomy 20:13-14

Perhaps the context may explain a little better....

"If you approach a city to fight against it, you should also announce to it terms of peace. 11 If it gives a peaceful answer to you and opens up to you, all the people found there will become yours for forced labor, and they will serve you. 12 But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead goes to war with you, you should besiege it, 13 and Jehovah your God will certainly give it into your hand, and you must strike down every male in it with the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the livestock, and everything that is in the city, all its spoil, you may plunder for yourself, and you will eat the spoil of your enemies, which Jehovah your God has given to you.. . . .in the cities of these peoples, which Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not allow any breathing thing to live. 17 Instead, you should devote them completely to destruction. . . . just as Jehovah your God has commanded you; 18 so that they may not teach you to follow all their detestable practices that they have done for their gods, causing you to sin against Jehovah your God."

It was an expectation in those times that the conqueror got the spoil.
God's complete disdain for false worship and its detestable practices was reflected in his commands.

No slander in there, its how the bible is written.

The slander is from satan......the one who lied about God and took humans hostage in the beginning, abusing their trust and leading the world into conflict with the Creator.

And what if i told you that straw men are just straw men?

You are free to evaluate things in any way you wish, but I just wanted you to know that God had his reasons for what he did and the way he did them at that time. The Bible explains his actions as they were carried out in another time in another world. He does not sanction such things today because it is a completely different world with different circumstances.

Of course you can put your own interpretation on it, thats your prerogative, you can even excuse the violence and killing as 'ah well, different time' or 'god can do what he wants '

But dont expect me to be your mind

I just wanted you to have the facts.
Your decisions are yours to make.....I am just a messenger. But there are just two sides.....you have to choose the right one if you want your life to continue according to what God has planned for the life he created here....its up to everyone to make their own decisions about that.

 

[ChristineM]

The flood was to rid the earth of the monstrous offspring of materialized rebel angels and human women. They were the "Nephilim" (Genesis 6) and they were responsible for the whole world of mankind going down a very wicked path of violence and immorality. The only righteous man of that time was Noah.

Because this action involved angelic creatures who had abused their God-given abilities in order to experience human pleasures, God had to create a vessel, (a safe haven) outside of which nothing could survive. The demon angels could have nothing of a material nature to cling to, so the flood eliminated any chance of them remaining in the world of that time. By destroying their offspring and all who followed their wicked course, God took out of existence, freakish humans of monstrous size and strength who had no right to exist, and forced their errant fathers back to the spirit realm where God thereafter placed them under restraint, by removing their ability to materialize. There is no mention of them doing so again.

It was not genocide but a drastic measure taken to stop the spread of that level of wickedness in the earth before God was due to bring in his Messiah. He started to populate the earth again with Noah sons and daughters in law. God had also hand picked the animals specimens that he had brought to Noah to place them on the ark. It just reset the world and put God's purpose back on track.

All the while that Noah was constructing the ark he preached to the people, but no one listened. There was room on that vessel for many more humans, but they chose to stay where they were, immersed in the lifestyle to which they had become accustomed....but soon to be immersed in a very different situation....and it was their own fault.



Again, God gave Pharaoh every opportunity to agree to his request to release the Israelites from harsh slavery, but each time he brought one of the plagues, Pharaoh agreed to let them go, only to change his mind as soon as the plague stopped.
Each of those plagues was designed to humiliate one of Egypt's many gods.....this happened 10 times and on the last time God struck another of Egypt's principle gods...the Pharaoh himself. His successor was also to be treated like a god. The death of the firstborn was not murder because God alone has the right and power over life and death. Pharaoh had ten chances to stop it, but his pride wouldn't let him. This was Pharaoh's fault.



Abraham's bargaining with God over Sodom and Gomorrah proves that God was reasonable about these cities.
He had said that if there were any righteous people in the cities he would spare them.....Lot and his family were the only ones. (Genesis 18:22-33) God knew that there were no righteous people there, but patiently allowed Abraham to test him out. These people were incorrigibly wicked.



The Midianites, who were distantly related to the Israelites cunningly used their women to induce thousands of Israelite males to become involved in sexual immorality and idolatry in connection with Baal of Peor. (Numbers 25:1-9; 14-18; 31:15-16; 1 Corinthians 10:8; Revelation 2:14) Thereafter the Israelites, in obedience to divine command, took vengeance upon Midian. The Midianite cities and walled camps in the area were consigned to the fire. Thousands of domestic animals and many gold articles were taken as spoils. With the exception of the virgins, all, including the five kings of Midian were put to death. (Numbers 31)

Again it was a divine command and it was carried out with his sanction. God does not need our approval or opinions about his right as Universal Sovereign to conduct his business as he sees fit. It was the time and the circumstances of the day and nothing whatever to do with the sensibilities of today's world.



Perhaps the context may explain a little better....

"If you approach a city to fight against it, you should also announce to it terms of peace. 11 If it gives a peaceful answer to you and opens up to you, all the people found there will become yours for forced labor, and they will serve you. 12 But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead goes to war with you, you should besiege it, 13 and Jehovah your God will certainly give it into your hand, and you must strike down every male in it with the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the livestock, and everything that is in the city, all its spoil, you may plunder for yourself, and you will eat the spoil of your enemies, which Jehovah your God has given to you.. . . .in the cities of these peoples, which Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not allow any breathing thing to live. 17 Instead, you should devote them completely to destruction. . . . just as Jehovah your God has commanded you; 18 so that they may not teach you to follow all their detestable practices that they have done for their gods, causing you to sin against Jehovah your God."

It was an expectation in those times that the conqueror got the spoil.
God's complete disdain for false worship and its detestable practices was reflected in his commands.



The slander is from satan......the one who lied about God and took humans hostage in the beginning, abusing their trust and leading the world into conflict with the Creator.



You are free to evaluate things in any way you wish, but I just wanted you to know that God had his reasons for what he did and the way he did them at that time. The Bible explains his actions as they were carried out in another time in another world. He does not sanction such things today because it is a completely different world with different circumstances.



I just wanted you to have the facts.
Your decisions are yours to make.....I am just a messenger. But there are just two sides.....you have to choose the right one if you want your life to continue according to what God has planned for the life he created here....its up to everyone to make their own decisions about that.

All i see here is excuses and apologetics designed to absolve the bible of hate of difference.

Is your god meant to be omni everything or not?
Killing the entire planet, not only human but every living land based life form and a huge percentage of water based life because he let his creations run away is something a little more than drastic.

How was virginity ascertained? And of course who is to say the Midianites were actually wrong... oh right.

So you are saying god gave every opportunity for egypt to give up its way of life and religion under threat of plague and mass murder??? Cool negotiator is yor god eh?

I am not concerned with your interpretation of context but how the book is actualy written so I am not going further, its just more of the same to reply to, so i will finish with...

I have chosen the right side, my side, not anyone elses, No need for a god belief to fill in gaps in knowledge, i am quite happy with the truth and say to the difficult questions, "i dont know, but every day the gaps get smaller so i am content to learn as real, evidenced answers are presented"