Hypocrites (non-Muslims defending Islam)

[stvdv]

o the point, if a Moslem disagrees with your assessment of some aspect of Islam, how can a non-Moslem know who is correct?

Maybe even both are incorrect even.

I have seen plenty of non-Muslims (e.g. Atheists/Humanists) who have a healthy common sense, and use it. One need not be a Muslim to understand basic human behavior nor Koran. And if the Bible already states "become like child", I think the update (Koran) also has this in it.
(why I think this: the update is only needed if original was to difficult to figure out, so the update should not be more difficult than the previous one)

 

[Piculet]

have reason to believe they were taught correctly given that their teacher is Moslem.

That's no reason to think anything. Islam is found in the Qur'an and the sunnah.

how can a non-Moslem know who is correct?

non-Moslem can leave the teaching of Islam to someone else.

If you think about it, islamophobes frequently quote the Quran and the Hadith. It's wonderful everyone gets to read them, but the overly vocal non-Moslem always finds something stupid to say.

 

[icehorse]

That would be very much beside the topic.

what @Polymath257 said ^ ^

 

[Polymath257]

That's no reason to think anything. Islam is found in the Qur'an and the sunnah.

Which need to be interpreted, just like every religious text. And, clearly, there is substantial disagreement about such interpretations.

non-Moslem can leave the teaching of Islam to someone else.

Is learning about Islam limited to those who follow it? Is discussing your understanding also limited like this?

If you think about it, islamophobes frequently quote the Quran and the Hadith. It's wonderful everyone gets to read them, but the overly vocal non-Moslem always finds something stupid to say.

And many Muslims do as well. Often, it is the texts themselves that promote such stupidity.

But then, I consider it to be silly to say a man can have 4 wives and a woman can't have 4 husbands. Fair is fair.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

Anyone who thinks Muslims and Westerners can be friends has only to look at this post.

All people get for wanting to appease Islam is resentment, and unconditional calls to submit and convert.

Everyone here ought to read what happened to the French Huguenots when they suddenly found themselves to not be the popular religion by the government. A few laws later, and troops were stationed in their houses. They got bullied and forced to convert or leave.

Dragonnades - Wikipedia

From which we get the verb "to dragoon" someone into doing something.

 

[Polymath257]

Anyone who thinks Muslims and Westerners can be friends has only to look at this post.

All people get for wanting to appease Islam is resentment, and unconditional calls to submit and convert.

Everyone here ought to read what happened to the French Huguenots when they suddenly found themselves to not be the popular religion by the government. A few laws later, and troops were stationed in their houses. They got bullied and forced to convert.

Dragonnades - Wikipedia

Meh. Christianity has a similarly checkered past. Ever hear of the Albigensian crusade?

Hopefully, the fanatics of ALL religions will stop being so offensive and learn to get along with each other.

 

[Piculet]

Is learning about Islam limited to those who follow it

Not but I don't think it's possible for someone to truly understand Islam and not accept it. I've never met a non-Muslim who knows what he's talking about.

 

[Polymath257]

Not but I don't think it's possible for someone to truly understand Islam and not accept it. I've never met a non-Muslim who knows what he's talking about.

Funny, I hear the same claims from some Christians. And anyone who disagrees with them just doesn't know what they are talking about.

It always amazes me how similar some believers of different religions are.

 

[Polymath257]

Not but I don't think it's possible for someone to truly understand Islam and not accept it. I've never met a non-Muslim who knows what he's talking about.

Well, then, help me out here. As I understand it, a man can have 4 wives and a woman can only have one husband.

Is that correct?

If it is, then I understand that aspect of Islam and I consider it enough to not accept that aspect of its teaching.

I also understand that the man is the 'authority' over a woman in a marriage. And that this is supported (required?) by Islam.

Again, if this is the case, then that is quite sufficient to not accept that aspect of Islam.

I also understand that wearing a hijab is required for women, but no such requirement is made for men. is that correct?

If it is, then that is also another aspect where I reject Islam.

Maybe you can show where the Islamic view is one that should be accepted? What aspect here am I not understanding?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Funny, I hear the same claims from some Christians. And anyone who disagrees with them just doesn't know what they are talking about.

It always amazes me how similar some believers of different religions are.

Well, I have met this one twice: If you don't understand something like me, you are not thinking at all. There is literally nothing going on in your mind. One time for a religious believer and one time from a non-believer. Though in all fairness the non-believer was an Ayn Rand Objectivist. Some of them are really weird.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not but I don't think it's possible for someone to truly understand Islam and not accept it. I've never met a non-Muslim who knows what he's talking about.

You will find the same said by believers in every world religion. That's what makes them religions.

So now you have to contend with the fact that Christians think the same about Christianity, and Bahai's about their faith. And if by that criteria you are claiming that Islam is "true," then you must also accept the others are "true," too.

And I'll bet you don't...

 

[ecco]

I don't think so. I only know of one such religion..

Pastafarianism!

 

[ecco]

No. The religions that change are the ones that become irrelevant.

Do you mean the way that Islam changed from a single religion led by one man to dozens of sects with many beliefs and leaders?

 

[Piculet]

You will find the same said by believers in every world religion. That's what makes them religions.

Never heard it said of any other religion, but doesn't matter.

So now you have to contend with the fact that Christians think the same about Christianity

Don't get me started with their denial...

then I understand that aspect of Islam

Oh no you don't. You just hear it, repeat it and say you don't like it.

 

[Piculet]

Do you mean the way that Islam changed from a single religion led by one man to dozens of sects with many beliefs and leaders

Islam didn't change.

 

[oldbadger]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

No...... don't think so.
I would (and do) defend any religions against extremist bigots 'cos I believe in freedom of choice about religion.

But I'm a Deist....... and don't particularly care who thinks I'm a hypocrite. I'm just me.

 

[Polymath257]

Never heard it said of any other religion, but doesn't matter.

You should get out more. Or, maybe, you simply aren't listening.

Don't get me started with their denial...

Denial about religion is universal.

Oh no you don't. You just hear it, repeat it and say you don't like it.

So, please tell me what I fail to understand in those cases.

 

[Piculet]

I believe in freedom of choice about religion.

Which means nothing because no one has heard of anyone in the last 1000 years who didn't believe in that. Why is it still the most common comment made when virtue signalling?

 

[Polymath257]

Which means nothing because no one has heard of anyone in the last 1000 years who didn't believe in that. Why is it still the most common comment made when virtue signalling?

There have been *many* theists throughout the last 1000 years that do not believe in freedom of choice about religion. Typically, if you don't agree with their particular religion, you are tortured and killed. And that happens in pretty much every religion at some point.

 

[Piculet]

Denail about religion is universal.

Wouldn't universal make it your problem too? I think we need to narrow down the topic a little. Sometimes I feel like people dislike that though. If the topic is all over the place, it leads nowhere and your doubts are safely covered.