Hypocrites (non-Muslims defending Islam)

[Piculet]

The religion of righteousness is practiced under many names.

I don't think so. I only know of one such religion..

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well you won't find me defending Islam or any other religion. Not my job.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't think so. I only know of one such religion..

Many religions claim to be righteous. None are in reality from what I have seen.

 

[Piculet]

Maybe a bit of criticism of Islam is a good thing? Sometimes change is not corruption, but cleansing.

That's kind of besides the topic. My point is that those who are ignorant about Islam and try to defend it, frequently do more harm than those who criticise it.

 

[Piculet]

Many religions claim to be righteous. None are in reality from what I have seen.

You have seen little.

 

[Rival]

That's kind of besides the topic. My point is that those who are ignorant about Islam and try to defend it, frequently do more harm than those who criticise it.

But rather than attacking them and calling them hypocrites, wouldn't it be more fruitful for you to politely point out what you think the errors are?

 

[Polymath257]

You have seen little.

As have we all. Neither Christianity, Islam, Judaism, nor any other major religion manages to be righteous. Buddhism comes closest to my way of thinking, but it still has major flaws in practice.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Polymath257]

That's kind of besides the topic. My point is that those who are ignorant about Islam and try to defend it, frequently do more harm than those who criticise it.

And that is true whether the person defending is Moslem or not.

 

[Piculet]

And that is true whether the person defending is Moslem or not.

Yes. Don't even get me started about the Muslims who go around "abrogating" the verses of the Qur'an because they need to wear skinny jeans and listen to music.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes. Don't even get me started about the Muslims who go around "abrogating" the verses of the Qur'an because they need to wear skinny jeans and listen to music.

Maybe the religion needs to change to meet the needs of the modern world? I suspect that, like other religions that refuse to change, it will get increasingly irrelevant as time goes on.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe the religion needs to change to meet the needs of the modern world? I suspect that, like other religions that refuse to change, it will get increasingly irrelevant as time goes on.

I suspect the OP is a Salafist, and he can correct me if I'm wrong. They're conservative fundamentalist Sunni Muslims, and some are quite puritanical. Hardly represents most Muslims, but it explains his views.

 

[Piculet]

But rather than attacking them and calling them hypocrites, wouldn't it be more fruitful for you to politely point out what you think the errors are?

I do that frequently.

 

[Piculet]

Maybe the religion needs to change to meet the needs of the modern world? I suspect that, like other religions that refuse to change, it will get increasingly irrelevant as time goes on.

No. The religions that change are the ones that become irrelevant.

 

[Nakosis]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

I don't defend other people's religions. Though I perhaps try to understand their point of view sometimes. I wouldn't like someone, not of my religion trying to defend it, well if I had one. I think it would feel very patronizing.

 

[Piculet]

I suspect the OP is a Salafist, and he can correct me if I'm wrong.

I will, if you can explain what it means to be a Salafist.(hint:"follower of salafism", link to wiki or "fundamentalist" are not sufficient explanations)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I will, if you can explain what it means to be a Salafist.(hint:"follower of salafism", link to wiki or "fundamentalist" are not sufficient explanations)

I don't feel the need to define it for you. You either are or aren't.

 

[sun rise]

hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Muslims don't even agree on those things, so it's ridiculous to suggest that acceptance of those things is the only valid opinion a Muslim may hold on those things,

Exactly. I get it that those who disagree with @Piculet on what constitutes a true Muslim are wrong. If those who disagree with that perspective are not Muslims they're hypocrites. In other words they're just pretending to be supporters.

That's kind of besides the topic. My point is that those who are ignorant about Islam and try to defend it, frequently do more harm than those who criticise it.

I agree ignorance is too rampant among Muslims and non-Muslims. I try to make responses to issues about Islam and other topics from research into such things as translations and opinions of scholars of Islam (in the case at hand).

As far as hijab being mandatory, Khaled Abou El-Fadl, Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, Abdullah bin Bayyah, Ahmad Ghabel and Nasr Abu Zayd as well as others disagree.

All would agree that modesty for men and women is enjoined by Islam. All would agree that dressing modestly is something virtuous.

So if a woman of her own choice decides to wear a hijab because for her it is a mark of modesty, no one should disagree with that decision.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Defending the right to do X is not the same as defending X.

It is different when one person misrepresent Islam and like many do to blame Islam for most of the problems in the world.
When Islam is practiced in a peaceful way it is a good path. But as in mostly every. Religions there are those who do wrong deeds and think they do good.

 

[sun rise]

I will, if you can explain what it means to be a Salafist.

That's an area of controversy among Muslims. It's typically used to refer to a very strict interpretation of Islam with all other interpretations being rejected as heretical. And often it's associated with the lesser jihad.

Among scholars, the situation is more complex.

Salafism - Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Religion

Salafism is a branch of Sunni Islam whose modern-day adherents claim to emulate “the pious predecessors” (al-salaf al-ṣāliḥ; often equated with the first three generations of Muslims) as closely and in as many spheres of life as possible. Different scholars of Islam throughout time have striven to emulate the early Muslim generations in the legal sphere, in theological matters, or in both. The ideas espoused by these scholars have more or less culminated in the Wahhabi movement that started on the Arabian Peninsula in the 18th century, which in turn helped spread a Salafi message to the rest of the Arab and Muslim worlds and even beyond. As such, the trend now referred to as Salafism came about, expressing itself ideologically in teachings that are meant to present the trend as exclusively and meticulously adhering to the example of the salaf, while rejecting all other sources of influence. Practically, Salafism can be divided into three branches: quietist Salafism, whose adherents shun political activism and concentrate on “cleansing” and teaching Islam in all its “purity”; political Salafism, which does concentrate on political commitment as an integral part of Islam through contentious debates, parliamentary participation, and founding political parties; and Jihadi-Salafism, whose followers seek to overthrow supposedly apostate regimes in the Muslim world through violent jihad. Although the term “Salafism” is heavily contested among Salafis—with adherents of one branch often not allowing the application of the label to be applied to the other branches—its various ideas and manifestations show that Salafism is quite a diverse phenomenon.

There is also this Is Salafi a right appellation - Islamweb - Fatwas and this Modern Salafism: One Ideology, Many Movements - Maydan

 

[Heyo]

Uncalled for. Report such things instead of posting about them, Ok? Your post is likely to be removed, because sometimes we remove such posts as rule 1 insults. If you encounter such a post please report it. We don't reveal who has reported it.

Won't happen again - I've put him on ignore.