• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Here is one solution. Make a new amendment

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Most of the shootings in the USA occur in Democrat run cities where gun laws are very strict, where there is an active black market and now a revolving door justice system. Chicago, alone, had over 1000 deaths by shooting last year. Nationally, we would need 50-100 times as many mass shootings, by the end of the year, to catch up to one city, who has strict gun laws.

Mass shootings account for less total killings, but these receive the most media and press coverage. Something is not quite right in terms of the press reporting things a proportional way to the degree of problem. Something else is being pushed and something worse is being glossed over. What is up with that?

Those who wish to strict control guns laws, are practicing what they preach in places like Chicago. They should be pointing out all the tangible successes of why their sales pitch is the best strategy for the problem. But this strategy has not led to level of success as sold by the sales pitch. The data is swept under the rug by various sympathizing media outlets, who demonstrated they are more than willing to lie about things like Russian Collusion hoax.

I used to be a development engineer. When you develop new ideas, you first test the concept in the lab to make sure it works. If this small scale test shows promise, you then scale the concept and run pilot tests before scaling up into full production.

The pilot test is an opportunity to work out bugs under more realistic instead of ideal conditions, before you before full scale. Chicago and other large cities have been good pilot tests of the gun taboo. It is not working out as well as the sales pitch and the lab data, which is why this level of failure is not being reported by the same people who pitched the idea. They want to ignore the pilot data and go into scale up, with no accountability if things go as bad as the big city pilot tests. How about accessories to murder?

If the approach of science was important, the politicians would analyze the pilot data data and look for a new approach; back to the drawing board. This approach should not go into into production and turn the entire country into a Chicago style Wild West town. Who benefits by skipping steps leading to disaster?

In schools, one political party, after a few lab tests in the 1970's, suggested that we deal with sex, unwanted pregnancy and STD's by teaching sex education in schools, even at a young age. Why not teach gun safety in schools? If proactive teaching of safe practices does not make the problem worse for sex, why not use that approach for guns? Why the hypocrisy?

If this approach works, as stated, for one behavior it should work for both. But if it makes a problem worse, this would also happen in both cases. This hypocrisy is what happens when you skip pilot testing, gloss over bad results, and scale up things even of made worse.

One oldest lessons in the bible is prohibition will create temptation. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, only after they were told not to do that. Atheism is school has made this lesson of human nature less conscious. Name me one taboo that has not led to a black market expansion and an underground to drive demand. This happened in Chicago.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...

One oldest lessons in the bible is prohibition will create temptation. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, only after they were told not to do that. Atheism is school has made this lesson of human nature less conscious. Name me one taboo that has not led to a black market expansion and an underground to drive demand. This happened in Chicago.

So murder is an underground marked and we solve it by making it legal? That we have to many illegal weapons, so we get legal weapons and more training and then the murders stop?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Perhaps nice to try though. :D

Well, no, not really. :p Now you could learn to do it yourself and figure out how a nirvana fallacy works in actuality for the everyday world.
You know, we non-religious are so proud that we can explain the world, right?

Yeah, I am a pain in the ***, because I hold us as a group to our standard. We can explain the everyday world for how it works in practice.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
How many mass murders were carried out by a person carrying a concelled weapon or open carrying a revolver or pistol?
I would say that about 80 to 95 percent of highschool males had easy access to a firearm.

Well, not many. But for the class of concealed weapons technology has changed. So today you could do a mass shooting with a certain subset of concealed weapons.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Well, no, not really. :p Now you could learn to do it yourself and figure out how a nirvana fallacy works in actuality for the everyday world.
You know, we non-religious are so proud that we can explain the world, right?

Yeah, I am a pain in the ***, because I hold us as a group to our standard. We can explain the everyday world for how it works in practice.
Alright then, how about basing it upon how accurate they could hit a target? Surely that might be worthwhile? :oops:
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
How many mass murders were carried out by a person carrying a concelled weapon or open carrying a revolver or pistol?
I would say that about 80 to 95 percent of highschool males had easy access to a firearm.
You dance while children die. It's disgusting.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It is not an acceptable principle. You are confusing 3 different aspects of ethics. Biology can solve one, but not the other 2.
Just read the philosophy link you gave. And you will see.
Then take it up with experts, they are the ones saying it is evident.

I am only referring to basic morals as rooted in biology and evolution, not abstract morals that most of us refer to in human behavior and philosophy.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Well, not many. But for the class of concealed weapons technology has changed. So today you could do a mass shooting with a certain subset of concealed weapons.
So, what's your point.
Here in Idaho we have open carry and conceled carry without a permit.
Over 60% of the population have firearms
So, given the above why is our murder rate (2020) by all means was 2.19 per 100,000 and the U.S. rate was 7.8 per 100,000
https://nibrs.isp.idaho.gov/CrimeInIdaho/CrimePublication/CrimePublicationReports
What we know about the increase in U.S. murders in 2020
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Perhaps a new amendment - only allow those with an IQ over a certain value are allowed to purchase guns, and this would be extended to voting too. :oops:
I can understand this argument, and perhaps at one time would have agreed, but I see even maturity problems with intelligent people. I suggest it is a culture problem and compounded with a poor value and emphasis on education and maturity among the youth, and young adults. Conservatives are openly hostile to education, given their book bans and absurd claims against CRT. We also see how conservatives approach media as a means to manipulate and influence versus inform with credible information.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Most of the shootings in the USA occur in Democrat run cities where gun laws are very strict, where there is an active black market and now a revolving door justice system. Chicago, alone, had over 1000 deaths by shooting last year. Nationally, we would need 50-100 times as many mass shootings, by the end of the year, to catch up to one city, who has strict gun laws.

Mass shootings account for less total killings, but these receive the most media and press coverage. Something is not quite right in terms of the press reporting things a proportional way to the degree of problem. Something else is being pushed and something worse is being glossed over. What is up with that?

Those who wish to strict control guns laws, are practicing what they preach in places like Chicago. They should be pointing out all the tangible successes of why their sales pitch is the best strategy for the problem. But this strategy has not led to level of success as sold by the sales pitch. The data is swept under the rug by various sympathizing media outlets, who demonstrated they are more than willing to lie about things like Russian Collusion hoax.

I used to be a development engineer. When you develop new ideas, you first test the concept in the lab to make sure it works. If this small scale test shows promise, you then scale the concept and run pilot tests before scaling up into full production.

The pilot test is an opportunity to work out bugs under more realistic instead of ideal conditions, before you before full scale. Chicago and other large cities have been good pilot tests of the gun taboo. It is not working out as well as the sales pitch and the lab data, which is why this level of failure is not being reported by the same people who pitched the idea. They want to ignore the pilot data and go into scale up, with no accountability if things go as bad as the big city pilot tests. How about accessories to murder?

If the approach of science was important, the politicians would analyze the pilot data data and look for a new approach; back to the drawing board. This approach should not go into into production and turn the entire country into a Chicago style Wild West town. Who benefits by skipping steps leading to disaster?

In schools, one political party, after a few lab tests in the 1970's, suggested that we deal with sex, unwanted pregnancy and STD's by teaching sex education in schools, even at a young age. Why not teach gun safety in schools? If proactive teaching of safe practices does not make the problem worse for sex, why not use that approach for guns? Why the hypocrisy?

If this approach works, as stated, for one behavior it should work for both. But if it makes a problem worse, this would also happen in both cases. This hypocrisy is what happens when you skip pilot testing, gloss over bad results, and scale up things even of made worse.

One oldest lessons in the bible is prohibition will create temptation. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, only after they were told not to do that. Atheism is school has made this lesson of human nature less conscious. Name me one taboo that has not led to a black market expansion and an underground to drive demand. This happened in Chicago.
How many gun deaths would there be in Chicago if gun laws were more strict in who legally got guns, and laws to ensure owners were more responsible in securing their weapons? It's easy to get black market guns because guns are so prevalent. It's a supply issue.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I can understand this argument, and perhaps at one time would have agreed, but I see even maturity problems with intelligent people. I suggest it is a culture problem and compounded with a poor value and emphasis on education and maturity among the youth, and young adults. Conservatives are openly hostile to education, given their book bans and absurd claims against CRT. We also see how conservatives approach media as a means to manipulate and influence versus inform with credible information.
Well it was suggested half in jest, given it and the suggestion later could hardly be worse than what exists at the moment. :oops:
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Well it was suggested half in jest, given it and the suggestion later could hardly be worse than what exists at the moment. :oops:

Well, it could lead to a worse situation.
Now I don't want to sound like a teacher, but I have to.
If you want to solve a complex situation, you have to learn to spot the limitations of single factor solutions. Sorry, but that is how it is.
 
Top