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God Debate

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by pandamonk, May 23, 2005.

  1. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    No, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they were kicked out of the Garden, thus being denied the tree of life, and thus brought death upon themselves, also the moment they ate it they "died" spiritually bring sin into the world.

    Well, knowing what God tells you to do is not nessecarily knowing it is good, and knowing what God tells you not to do is not nessecarily knowing it is evil.

    You stipulated that omniscience demanded the loss of free will, I have given you a valid possibility which provides for omniscience and free will. We are debating the philisophical, no "hard" evidence exists.

    Nice to know when your suspicions are correct.

    You said you have video "proving the Bible false". If you believe so, please elaborate in another thread.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't suspect that you would like me to break down the entire Bible, word for word... short of that, I'll give you the basics of my faith concerning Scripture:

    "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."
    The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.
    1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture".
    2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church".
    3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.
    Well, I always look to interpret literally FIRST.... but the rules of reading Scripture should always be applied. Again, short of going verse by verse..... you'll just hopefully understand that a theological study of the Bible is more than just picking it up and reading it.
    Why not? Go ahead.... won't bother me a bit.... as for me, I don't.
    Well, Roman Catholics believe that the Church knows the "right way to take it".... for me, to trust in the Bible and not the Church that defined what books were included in it would be kinda silly.

    Hope this helps.
    Scott
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    And if the spirit is late 1st century pious fraud?
     
  4. stemann

    stemann Time Bandit

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    Actually you haven't. This is what I wrote earlier in this thread:

    And on the Bible truth/metaphor debate, basically, the Christian world has changed its views on the Bible constantly throughout the last 2000 years in order to keep themselves integrated with society. There is nothing in the Bible about genetic modification, but people still constantly try to vary their interpretations to fit it in.
    What do you do when your holy book doesn't have an answer to something? Make it up.
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Hi Stemann, Namaste.

    I won't deny that there aren't religions that have changed the interpretation of the Bible to suit their own ends - whilst some have just cut out bits they don't like (Henry VIII who separated himself from Catholicism because his wife couldn't bear him a son, and he wanted rid of her.), but I think that you are forgetting Catholicism and Judaism, both of which are faiths so steeped in tradition and unrelenting determinationnot to waiver from their stance.
    As for your comment:-
    "What do you do when your holy book doesn't have an answer to something? Make it up" - With respect, I think is what you are doing, in your own mind about what you choose to believe.:)
     
  6. stemann

    stemann Time Bandit

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    How many times have i said it, you don't choose what you believe! All you can do is assess different arguments.

    In order for me to get a full education, and not just be biased towards science, I joined a Christian Youth Fellowship for two years. I assessed critically claims from both the Bible and modern teachings. I went to church once a month and to 'discussion' once a week. Not once did i find anything remotely as convincing as scientific and philosophical arguments. I did not choose to follow science but my analysis led me to this.

    But perhaps a theist would conclude exactly the same for God at a science institute. Oh well.

    Because like i said before, some minds are more susceptible to belief in the supernatural, God, etc., and some need hard evidence for everything.
     
  7. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    A completley rational donkey would realize if he doesn't eat he will die and walk over to one of the food piles and eat it.

    No, it would make God, not all-loving, it would not make Him not God.
     
  8. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Or not.....

    Ah, those "pithy one liners"....:rolleyes:
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Or both ...
     
  10. pandamonk

    pandamonk Active Member

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    No you're missing the point "God" as a definition IS all moral, which means, if the celestial being you believe in is not all moral then that being is not a god.
     
  11. pandamonk

    pandamonk Active Member

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    i meant loving* sorry
     
  12. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Not by my definition
     
  13. Ormiston

    Ormiston Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought...why is it important whether God exists or not? Excluding religion, excluding the Bible, excluding morals, why does it matter to anyone if there is an entity that no one can understand or relate to? If life is purely a natural thing, does anyone really believe that morals and religion would cease to exist? Right and wrong only has meaning in a world involving humans. If we were extinct, where would God fit into that existance? No other living creature on this planet worships. I am curious about this because I give the credit for my existance to the trillions of humans who have managed to survive for the last million years. Shouldn't we honor them before we honor an imagined being that no one has ever seen?
     
  14. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    ABBA is an Aramaic word. It means Daddy but a much more respectful sense. This is what Jesus called his father. Jesus never called God omnipotent or omniscient. Think of a little kid lost in the supermarket in Modern day Israel he calles for his ABBA and when he finds him he runs to him and takes comfort in his arms. That is the best image of God I can think of.


    AMEN
    AMEN
    its okay, good thing I can refute it.

    It is on the episode where Home takes Pot for his eyes

    I tried to do that too but I guess Tawn is a better talker then me.


    Okay I get it. What we have here is intelligence making its way on information. this is how I refute the argument.

    Were did the information to form the universe come from?
    from other information

    Where did that information come from
    from other information

    Where did that information come frome
    from other information

    the only thing that makes sense is infinite information (aka GOD)
     
  15. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    Two reasons for the need for God

    Heaven/hell

    the moral law
     
  16. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    didn't you just violate the scriptures? see 1Peter 3:15
     
  17. Cordoba

    Cordoba Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't you be curious to understand how this universe came into existence, and where you came from?

    Who said no one can relate to God?

    All what is in this universe worships God, including birds and trees.

    The only exception is those who claim that God does not exist.

    How can you "see" God who is Eternal?

    There is to Him no equivalent.

    All the best.
     
  18. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Does 1 Peter 3:15 mean that we have to have ALL the answers?

    We can only affirm that wich has been revealed to us (religiously speaking, of course). And as far as I know, there is no scripture that really addresses the issue of God's power in as it relates to the question stated in the beginning of the thread. If you can show me a scripture that could at least help to explain a better answer than "we do not know" I would love to see it.
     
  19. Tawn

    Tawn Active Member

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    The alternative position is to accept that complexity can develop from simplicity.
     
  20. chuck010342

    chuck010342 Active Member

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    1 Peter 3:15 does tell us to be prepared to answer anybody who asks us. We need to find the answers and to be ready to answer people. It doesn't give us all the answers thats what God is for.
     
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