God Debate

[chuck010342]

The alternative position is to accept that complexity can develop from simplicity.

has that ever been shown to happen?

 

[Linus]

1 Peter 3:15 does tell us to be prepared to answer anybody who asks us. We need to find the answers and to be ready to answer people. It doesn't give us all the answers thats what God is for.

I am prepared for the most part. That is why I am here on these forums. That is why I post on threads like these. So I can give an account for the faith that is in me. But there are some questions to which we simply don't know the answer because we are not told the answer. We can only know about God that which He has revealed to us. Does this mean I am in violation of 1 Peter 3:15?

 

[pandamonk]

1 Peter 3:15 does tell us to be prepared to answer anybody who asks us. We need to find the answers and to be ready to answer people. It doesn't give us all the answers thats what God is for.

Does this mean if you cannot answer a question your god will answer for you? What if your god doesn't? does that mean you god doesn't exist or just that he cannot be bothered? What i'm saying is you should be able to answer every possible question. So could you look at my earlier posts and answer my unanswered points eg. " Omniscience(infinite knowledge)knows everything there is to know. Not just about what they are doing but about what they will do infinitely into the future and infinitely into the past. Knowing everything that has and will happen and all the stuff in between. Knowing everything there is to know about everything! So if you know everything u will do in the future right from the begining of ur existence (infinitely in the past) then you have always known what you are going to do. Even if you change your mind, you would have known right from the start you wer going to change you mind. Everything is predestined to God so he is powerless to change it and if he thinks he has he hasnt because it was going to tunr out like that anyway. It's confussing i know. It is impossible even. That is why, i feel, a gods existence is impossible:jiggy:"? And also answer me this, what are next weeks lotto numbers? lol (just kidding)

 

[pandamonk]

has that ever been shown to happen?

Everywhere!all the time!take a foetus, it starts off as two cells and gradually grows to a living baby, which after birth grows further. Even take your religion, man came from dust did he not? is dust not simple compared to humankind? a simple crack in the earths surface can cause all sorts of complexities, earthquakes, tsunamis etc.

 

[pandamonk]

We can only know about God that which He has revealed to us

what, personally, has your god revealed to you, and in what form did that come and is there no other explanation you can think of for it?

 

[chuck010342]

Everywhere!all the time!take a foetus, it starts off as two cells and gradually grows to a living baby, which after birth grows further. Even take your religion, man came from dust did he not? is dust not simple compared to humankind? a simple crack in the earths surface can cause all sorts of complexities, earthquakes, tsunamis etc.

let me rephrase the question.

Do you see this happening spontaniously without any intelligence being put on information?

 

[chuck010342]

I am prepared for the most part. That is why I am here on these forums. That is why I post on threads like these. So I can give an account for the faith that is in me. But there are some questions to which we simply don't know the answer because we are not told the answer. We can only know about God that which He has revealed to us. Does this mean I am in violation of 1 Peter 3:15?

Thats what an apologetic is for to answer questions. I might have some answers. If you don't know just suspend Judgment for a while untill you come up with the answer.

 

[Linus]

what, personally, has your god revealed to you, and in what form did that come

Im speaking of the Bible. God has revealed the Bible to us and It is not up to us to speak beyond what it says.

and is there no other explanation you can think of for it?

What exactly do you mean?

 

[Linus]

If you don't know just suspend Judgment for a while untill you come up with the answer.

So how, then, am I in volation of 1 Peter 3:15? All I said was that I do not know the answer.

 

[Mister Emu]

unanswered points eg. " Omniscience(infinite knowledge)knows everything there is to know. Not just about what they are doing but about what they will do infinitely into the future and infinitely into the past. Knowing everything that has and will happen and all the stuff in between. Knowing everything there is to know about everything! So if you know everything u will do in the future right from the begining of ur existence (infinitely in the past) then you have always known what you are going to do. Even if you change your mind, you would have known right from the start you wer going to change you mind. Everything is predestined to God so he is powerless to change it and if he thinks he has he hasnt because it was going to tunr out like that anyway. It's confussing i know. It is impossible even. That is why, i feel, a gods existence is impossible:jiggy:"? And also answer me this, what are next weeks lotto numbers? lol (just kidding)

As I have previously posted, it is my belief that God is outside of time, thus distinctions of time(past, present, future) do not exist for Him(my belief). If God exists in what we call the future, it is not so much that He knows what we are going to do, as much as it is knowing what we have done.

 

[michel]

Hi Panandamonk,

Your post did have some validity to the logical arguments you presented seen from your stance.

However we humans trying to define God, I think, is very much on a paralell as your asking a normal four year old to describe quantum mechanics. Not only would the lad not be able to conceive the ideas, he would not have the vocabulary to do it.

Fromthe heart made a very good point of saying that we believe because we do - if you choose not to, that's got nothing to do with me - it's your choice, and if it feels right to you, I hope you are happy with your belief system.

Although there was some logical argument in what you said in your first post, the logic was logic from a human perspective. Your argument about God not telling us what will happen to us is a good theory in principle, coming from a non-believer, but a believer (I am assuming here - perhaps I should just say 'I') would see no value to life whatsoever if I knew the outcome - how would you feel, for sake of argument, if you were aware of the fact that your death would come about as a result of a car crash?

At the end of it all, I think we have to go back to the 'I have faith, you have not; neither of us will be able to prove or refute arguments - because we are talking in different languages.

 

[pandamonk]

Your argument about God not telling us what will happen to us is a good theory in principle, coming from a non-believer, but a believer (I am assuming here - perhaps I should just say 'I') would see no value to life whatsoever if I knew the outcome - how would you feel, for sake of argument, if you were aware of the fact that your death would come about as a result of a car crash?

My argument was that God should give the answer to any question. Could be how you are going to die, but only a person wanting to know would ask that. I personally(and you, i think, from what you said) wouldn't want to know. My point is that God should give you answers to the questions that go beyond our knowledge, in order to explain to non believers, like me, how it works and disprove any of our arguments against. And if he doesn't then it is like the leader sending his soldiers into battle argument(which i came up with and quite proud of lol)

 

[pandamonk]

let me rephrase the question.

Do you see this happening spontaniously without any intelligence being put on information?

What do you mean? What information? Well the cells which grow to a foetus split spontaniously if that's what you are meaning.

 

[pandamonk]

Im speaking of the Bible. God has revealed the Bible to us and It is not up to us to speak beyond what it says.

But it was man who wrote the bible. Man with the ability to make mistakes.

What exactly do you mean?

I mean, there is a reason to why you believe what you believe,ok. Can you not think of a different more logical reason of what happened to make you believe other than, it happened so God must exist?

 

[Linus]

But it was man who wrote the bible. Man with the ability to make mistakes.

All scripture is God-breathed. Men did the actual writing, but I believe God guided them to write it accurately.

I mean, there is a reason to why you believe what you believe,ok. Can you not think of a different more logical reason of what happened to make you believe other than, it happened so God must exist?

Why do I believe? I don't think I can really explain it very well. It's a combination of things. I think there is more to life than just living. There has to be a purpose. I have read the Bible and it seems to make sense to me. It provides an answer to many of life's questions. I have felt the love and joy and happiness that only God and the love of His son can provide. I have felt it in my life. It isn't blind faith, but it isn't merely some mystical, fuzzy feeling I get. Does that help at all?

 

[Tawn]

All scripture is God-breathed. Men did the actual writing, but I believe God guided them to write it accurately.

But has man interpreted it accurately

Why do I believe? I don't think I can really explain it very well. It's a combination of things. I think there is more to life than just living. There has to be a purpose. I have read the Bible and it seems to make sense to me. It provides an answer to many of life's questions. I have felt the love and joy and happiness that only God and the love of His son can provide. I have felt it in my life. It isn't blind faith, but it isn't merely some mystical, fuzzy feeling I get. Does that help at all?

I think that sounds, from my perspective, like you believe because you want and need there to be a purpose and meaning to your life in order to be happy.

 

[Linus]

But has man interpreted it accurately

That truly is the question, isn't it? Of course, If you ask me, I will tell you that he has.

I think that sounds, from my perspective, like you believe because you want and need there to be a purpose and meaning to your life in order to be happy.

You hit the nail pretty much on the head there. I just think that there has to be more to it than this.

 

[michel]

My argument was that God should give the answer to any question. Could be how you are going to die, but only a person wanting to know would ask that. I personally(and you, i think, from what you said) wouldn't want to know. My point is that God should give you answers to the questions that go beyond our knowledge, in order to explain to non believers, like me, how it works and disprove any of our arguments against. And if he doesn't then it is like the leader sending his soldiers into battle argument(which i came up with and quite proud of lol)

I don't agree; I think you are using this 'questions and answers with God' as an excuse to find out if there really is one. You are basically saying that you won't believe in God unless you can ask him a question to prove himself - that, my friend, is the worst possible reason for wanting to talk to God.

 

[Tawn]

That truly is the question, isn't it? Of course, If you ask me, I will tell you that he has.

Maybe some have.. but most certainly have not. There is no single interpretation of the bible and it seems to me like people take the bits they like and leave out the bits they dont..

You hit the nail pretty much on the head there. I just think that there has to be more to it than this.

Do you think thats a valid basis for belief though? How can you think the truth is subject to your wishful thinking?

 

[Linus]

Maybe some have.. but most certainly have not. There is no single interpretation of the bible and it seems to me like people take the bits they like and leave out the bits they dont..

There is much dissention between denominations. Denominationalism is truly a sad thing.

Do you think thats a valid basis for belief though? How can you think the truth is subject to your wishful thinking?

I have merely observed the truth for what it is. The explanation of that truth that seems to make the most sense to me is the one found in the word of God.