God Debate

[Tawn]

The explanation of that truth that seems to make the most sense to me is the one found in the word of God.

Whilst I think youre completely wrong, I cannot argue with that.

 

[Linus]

Whilst I think youre completely wrong, I cannot argue with that.

I figured you would think that .

 

[pandamonk]

hey sorry I'm a bit behind in my reply

All scripture is God-breathed. Men did the actual writing, but I believe God guided them to write it accurately.

but there are mistakes, many many mistakes, i have a video which points out the mistakes(well had, i let a friend borrow it and ain't got it back yet)when i get it back il watch it and post some main points of the video. And a repeat of what tawn said(good one)lol

Why do I believe? I don't think I can really explain it very well. It's a combination of things. I think there is more to life than just living. There has to be a purpose. I have read the Bible and it seems to make sense to me. It provides an answer to many of life's questions. I have felt the love and joy and happiness that only God and the love of His son can provide. I have felt it in my life. It isn't blind faith, but it isn't merely some mystical, fuzzy feeling I get. Does that help at all?

I have read the Bible too(well most of it)and it doesn't make sense to me. So you're saying only love, joy and happiness is possible through having a belief in a god? So all us atheists are full of hatred, misery and sadness? emmm... no, well not me anyway. The only time I ever feel unhappy is with my girlfriend(a Christian), when we fall out etc. and thats nearly always caused by her want to be a proper christian refraining from any sexual activities, and many other things, often not directly caused by her religion but in which her religion has played a huge part. The love of his son? So you call sending your son to be sacrificed to save others love for that son? I wrote this before in an email to a Christian site and got no reply: "jesus christ died for our sins, ok, but in accepting and allowing that to happen we are being greatly immoral, are we not? letting a completely innocent being die for what we've done wrong? think about it, a new born baby is totally innocent of every sin, so is it moral so sacrifice that baby for what we have done wrong?" And you call that LOVE? :biglaugh:It isn't blind faith, so what/who guides you?

 

[chuck010342]

So how, then, am I in volation of 1 Peter 3:15? All I said was that I do not know the answer.

you are in violation because you said " I don't know" my advice is to not say that. Don't say anything untill you have found the answer, just suspend judgment for now.

 

[chuck010342]

What do you mean? What information? Well the cells which grow to a foetus split spontaniously if that's what you are meaning.

okay use the cell and an example

Cells spontanously replicate themselves why do they do this? Because there is intelligence being put on information.

How do the cells know to replicate?

 

[Linus]

hey sorry I'm a bit behind in my reply

No worries.

but there are mistakes, many many mistakes, i have a video which points out the mistakes(well had, i let a friend borrow it and ain't got it back yet)when i get it back il watch it and post some main points of the video. And a repeat of what tawn said(good one)lol

I would love to hear about it when you get the chance.

So you're saying only love, joy and happiness is possible through having a belief in a god? So all us atheists are full of hatred, misery and sadness?

That was not at all what I was trying to say. I meant that there is a certain type of love that you can only Get from God. Knowing Him and having a close relationship with Him is completely different from any other type of relationship. I did not intend to say that the only way you can find any kind of love is through God, because that is obviously not the case.

The love of his son? So you call sending your son to be sacrificed to save others love for that son?

Yessiree.

Isaiah 53:10 - But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

I wrote this before in an email to a Christian site and got no reply: "jesus christ died for our sins, ok, but in accepting and allowing that to happen we are being greatly immoral, are we not?

Nope. We're not. Sorry to disappoint you, but If it pleases God then it pleases me.

letting a completely innocent being die for what we've done wrong? think about it, a new born baby is totally innocent of every sin, so is it moral so sacrifice that baby for what we have done wrong?"

Of course not (uh oh, I'm contradicting myself! ). pandamonk, It was a necessary sacrifice. We are sinful, and (according to Hebrews chapter 10) the blood of bulls and goats can't take those sins away. We need a perfect sacrifice. Not just any infant would have done. Infants have no sense of right and wrong. Jesus was a grown man who could make His own decisions. So He decided not to sin. He was perfect, therfore He could take away our sins.

It isn't blind faith, so what/who guides you?

Reasonable faith. Faith based on evidence.

 

[pandamonk]

okay use the cell and an example

Cells spontanously replicate themselves why do they do this? Because there is intelligence being put on information.

How do the cells know to replicate?

I'm sure biologist knows why they do. I don't merely because I ain't a biologist. I could try and find out if you're really that fussed

 

[pandamonk]

I would love to hear about it when you get the chance.

You will, You will lol

Of course not (uh oh, I'm contradicting myself! ). pandamonk, It was a necessary sacrifice. We are sinful, and (according to Hebrews chapter 10) the blood of bulls and goats can't take those sins away. We need a perfect sacrifice. Not just any infant would have done. Infants have no sense of right and wrong. Jesus was a grown man who could make His own decisions. So He decided not to sin. He was perfect, therfore He could take away our sins.

I used the case of the infant merely as it is the only thing close enough to being completely perfect. Not because im saying jesus was an infant(as many people try to make out that I'm saying), nor that Jesus had no choice like an infant(another thing people try to make out that I'm saying). I merely used the infant/baby as a metaphor for Jesus as it is the closest thing in perfectness to him. Lets use a man or woman who followed the word of the christian god all their life and never sinned instead of the baby. Ok so they have the ability to make their own decisions and are perfect. Is it moral to let them be killed to take away OUR sins? I feel the sins are ours, so we should deal with them! I think anyone who thinks that it is moral to let that perfect person/being/animal, wait a minute, any person/being/animal suffer for what they (meaning the person who thinks it's moral) have done wrong is being greatly immoral/evil!

 

[Linus]

Is it moral to let them be killed to take away OUR sins? I feel the sins are ours, so we should deal with them! I think anyone who thinks that it is moral to let that perfect person/being/animal, wait a minute, any person/being/animal suffer for what they (meaning the person who thinks it's moral) have done wrong is being greatly immoral/evil!

I agree that sins our sins are our own. We need to deal with them and try and resist temtation. But we have no way of redeeming ourselves and making our way right with God. So we have the sacrifice of Jesus to redeem us and make us perfect again.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

 

[pandamonk]

I'm sure biologist knows why they do. I don't merely because I ain't a biologist. I could try and find out if you're really that fussed

ok this site explains http://www.biotopics.co.uk/genes/dna.html

 

[pandamonk]

I agree that sins our sins are our own. We need to deal with them and try and resist temtation. But we have no way of redeeming ourselves and making our way right with God. So we have the sacrifice of Jesus to redeem us and make us perfect again.

That doesn't take away the immorality of it all though, it just gives an excuse for being immoral. It's like killing someone then saying I did it because I have been sinful and have no way of redeeming myself so thought if i kill this person it will redeem me. I'm not sure if that would go down to well in court, or even with your god. Especially his own son, his totally innocent son. And if it was him that sacrificed his own son what does that say about him? Is he not immoral for that? if not, why not? If he is immoral he cannot be a God.

I'm sorry you fel the way you do.

Why? Is there something wrong with how I feel? What? Because I don't believe the same as you, and have reasons for it, I now have something wrong with me? Is it because you couldn't come up with a proper answer so just resorted to insulting me (like so many others have done may i add).

 

[Linus]

That doesn't take away the immorality of it all though, it just gives an excuse for being immoral.

Hardly. It is only a recognition of the fact that we do sin and need redemtion in order to enter heaven. We can obviously help ourselves in resisting sin, we can completely control our own actions, but the problem is that it doesn't happen nearly as often as God would like (which is never). We must take the blame, the responsibility for our sins. It isn't saying, "hey I can sin all I want because God will just forgive me for it!" (Romans 6: 1-2), nor is it saying, "I can't help it" (1 Corinthians 10: 13). We all sin, and we all commit wrong. So, God decided to help us out. Who are we to turn it down?

And if it was him that sacrificed his own son what does that say about him? Is he not immoral for that? if not, why not?

This will probably not be the answer that you are looking for, but it is the best I can give:

No. It was part of God's plan from the beginning. I believe that God sets up all laws. If it is His law, it is good. If it is His choice, it is good. I'm sorry, but I do not see that as immoral. I see it as God's choice to save us and I will accept it until I am no longer able to do so. You may see it as imorrality, but I simply do not. Sorry.

Why? Is there something wrong with how I feel? What? Because I don't believe the same as you, and have reasons for it, I now have something wrong with me? Is it because you couldn't come up with a proper answer so just resorted to insulting me (like so many others have done may i add).

Please do not misinterpret my words. It was not my intention to insult you. I was merely attemting to expressing the fact that it is unfortunate that we do not agree. It seems that you feel strongly about this issue (and deservedly so because it is very important theologically) and it just seemed to me that there is no convincing you of anything else. So, I chose to simply say I'm sorry. It was intended to be a perfectly innocent remark and I apologize for any misread or misinterpreted feelings.

 

[pandamonk]

No. It was part of God's plan from the beginning. I believe that God sets up all laws. If it is His law, it is good. If it is His choice, it is good. I'm sorry, but I do not see that as immoral. I see it as God's choice to save us and I will accept it until I am no longer able to do so. You may see it as imorrality, but I simply do not. Sorry.

So you're saying it was ok for your god to do it because he is God. So if I want to be totally moral and perfect I should follow his example? So by sacrificing my future son to save mankind i will be on a par with God. I'm still not sure that the courts would accept that and I'm sure God(if there is such a being)wouldn't accept that either.

Please do not misinterpret my words. It was not my intention to insult you. I was merely attemting to expressing the fact that it is unfortunate that we do not agree. It seems that you feel strongly about this issue (and deservedly so because it is very important theologically) and it just seemed to me that there is no convincing you of anything else. So, I chose to simply say I'm sorry. It was intended to be a perfectly innocent remark and I apologize for any misread or misinterpreted feelings.

Yes you choose to say sorry for how I feel. Thats like you're thinking for me. Why not apologize for how you feel? Well you have above but that was after me bringing up the subject. And you still managed to make it seem like my problem. "I was merely attemting to expressing the fact that it is unfortunate that we do not agree." thats fine "it just seemed to me that there is no convincing you of anything else." although true, this seems like dig at me. It's as if you've shown me all the evidence and proved God existence to me and I still don't accept it (not the case). If you proved your god's existence to me and it was absolute proof with no faults etc then I would accept it. Thing is, no one has presented me with this "proof".

 

[Linus]

So you're saying it was ok for your god to do it because he is God.

Pretty much.

So if I want to be totally moral and perfect I should follow his example? So by sacrificing my future son to save mankind i will be on a par with God. I'm still not sure that the courts would accept that and I'm sure God(if there is such a being)wouldn't accept that either.

Christ's sacrifice for us was once and for all. I doubt your son's death will be needed to save humanity.

Yes you choose to say sorry for how I feel. Thats like you're thinking for me. Why not apologize for how you feel? Well you have above but that was after me bringing up the subject. And you still managed to make it seem like my problem. "I was merely attemting to expressing the fact that it is unfortunate that we do not agree." thats fine "it just seemed to me that there is no convincing you of anything else." although true, this seems like dig at me. It's as if you've shown me all the evidence and proved God existence to me and I still don't accept it (not the case). If you proved your god's existence to me and it was absolute proof with no faults etc then I would accept it. Thing is, no one has presented me with this "proof".

Again, I apologize. I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything by it. Can we just move on?

 

[pandamonk]

Christ's sacrifice for us was once and for all. I doubt your son's death will be needed to save humanity.

So it's ok for God but not for me? Why not? How can he go against all the rules of morality and still be all moral but if I make one small mistake throughout my life I have sinned and need Christs death to give me a chance of forgiveness?hmmm, i don't like that way of thinking.

Again, I apologize. I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything by it. Can we just move on?

yeah ok. I wasn't too bothered by it anyway, i just wanted to point out that i could've taken offence at it.

 

[chuck010342]

Understanding this goes a long way to explaining how nuclei divide in the process of mitosis , which results in identical copies of chromosomes being transferred during ordinary cell division.

Before a cell divides, its nucleus must divide. But before that happens, the chromosomes must have become double. So the first stage is that DNA which the chromosomes contain must replicate , i.e. become double, by making copies of itself.

The 2 strands of the DNA double helix can separate, under the influence of special enzymes in the nucleus, but each half remains attached along its length, like the 2 sections of a zip, because the sides of the strands are strongly joined.



It doesn't explain HOW the cell knows to divide.

 

[pandamonk]

It doesn't explain HOW the cell knows to divide.

As I said I'm not a biologist. I will look againt to find HOW it knows to divide

 

[pandamonk]

From what I've seen it is the DNA in the cell which tells it to split.

 

[Pah]

From what I've seen it is the DNA in the cell which tells it to split.

My wife, the biology teacher QTpi, says the cell divides because the volume of the cell gets too much for the surface area.

 

[chuck010342]

My wife, the biology teacher QTpi, says the cell divides because the volume of the cell gets too much for the surface area.

My question is HOW does the cell know to divide? Where does that information come from?