Global Warming ???

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you not have google? This is the problem with folks wanting sources.

Sure, we have Google... but you haven't really given us much to go on. When I Google "ice age", I mainly get stuff like this:

ALL SOURSES ARE BIASED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. NO SOURSE IS 100% CORRECT.

Using the reasoning behind wanting sources in the first place would imply that before the internet, nothing was true because it was not on the net.

It really is a big waste of time posting sources because they all have faults that can be challenged. But yet we ask for them anyway. Not exactly an honest request is it?

Why would it be dishonest? You gave a specific claim and referred to "some scientists"; if you weren't making this up, you got it from somewhere... where? And which scientists were you referring to when you said "some scientists"?

If anything, I think it's dishonest to make an appeal to authority - as you did in the OP - and then respond to questions about the nature of this authority by claiming that the authority doesn't matter.

If sources don't matter, then why did you bother to cite "some scientists" in your OP and not "some crank on Yahoo Answers"?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Climate Change Conspiracy - 2012 Galactic Alignment | 11:11 21-12-2012 Maya Calendar

 

[Reverend Rick]

And which scientists were you referring to when you said "some scientists"?

Scientist Predicts Ice Age Within 10 Years

 

[Reverend Rick]

You gave a specific claim and referred to "some scientists"; if you weren't making this up, you got it from somewhere... where?

Many times, I see something on TV or hear something on the radio. I repeat the story I heard and people immediately want a source. I don't get 100% of my news on the net.

Saying "some scientists are beginning to believe" is hardly invoking authority.

Then I ask folks to just for a moment assume "if" it is true, what should we do.

Hardly making a hard case when you ask people to imagine.

Just for the record, I never said that I believed anything in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

ice age 2012? - yahoo! Uk & ireland answers

lol!!

 

[Alceste]

Do you not have google? This is the problem with folks wanting sources.

ALL SOURSES ARE BIASED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. NO SOURSE IS 100% CORRECT.

Using the reasoning behind wanting sources in the first place would imply that before the internet, nothing was true because it was not on the net.

It really is a big waste of time posting sources because they all have faults that can be challenged. But yet we ask for them anyway. Not exactly an honest request is it?

I ask people for their sources even in casual conversation when they're making questionable factual claims. Before the internet, there was always the library. I got a boyfriend infuriated once because he called a terrier of some kind a beagle and wouldn't believe me when I told him it wasn't. I was all "look, let's just go to the library and settle this once and for all". He was all "no way! Why can't you ever just take my word for it!? wah wah wah.". Then he ran off slept with someone else that very night. But I digress...

 

[Reverend Rick]

I ask people for their sources even in casual conversation when they're making questionable factual claims. Before the internet, there was always the library. I got a boyfriend infuriated once because he called a terrier of some kind a beagle and wouldn't believe me when I told him it wasn't. I was all "look, let's just go to the library and settle this once and for all". He was all "no way! Why can't you ever just take my word for it!? wah wah wah.". Then he ran off slept with someone else that very night. But I digress...

If there was some "neutral source" where all information was unbiased and 100% correct, perhaps things would be much more simple. The thing is, a guy like me would not trust that source not to lead me astray.

No one is always right or all knowing.

My objective was to get folks to say, we don't have the ability to control the earths temperature. Even if we did, we cannot force countries like China and India to participate which in my opinion makes any effort fruitless.

I have always been a tree hugger, but that is a personal satisfaction thing for me.

I'm an ex-pagan who worshiped mother earth for many decades. I don't put much stock in what scientists say. I have never met one yet that would admit that there are so many things we just don't know for sure.

 

[Alceste]

Ok, leaving aside whether or not the "imminent ice age" hypoyhesis is a preposterous bit of twaddle, I believe that we should do something to mitigate our influence on the climate. Regardless of sunspot activity it is a fact that CO2 concentrations have reached a point that threatens the climate stability our species depends on to live in settled communities. Hypothetically speaking, if the "ice age" hypothesis were not a bunch of hooey, we'd still be in for 6+ degrees of catastrophic warming when the sunspot activity returned to normal.

 

[Alceste]

If there was some "neutral source" where all information was unbiased and 100% correct, perhaps things would be much more simple. The thing is, a guy like me would not trust that source not to lead me astray.

I'm not after 100% accuracy or infallibility, only a reasonable amount of credibility.

My objective was to get folks to say, we don't have the ability to control the earths temperature. Even if we did, we cannot force countries like China and India to participate which in my opinion makes any effort fruitless.

Well it is a fact accepted almost unanimously by scientists in relevant fields that we DO have the ability to control the earth's temperature: they all agree we are warming it up. I doubt you'll have much luck finding people on here that think nothing should even be attempted to avert the utter destruction of our civilization due to runaway climate change that could have been avoided.

I have always been a tree hugger, but that is a personal satisfaction thing for me.

I'm an ex-pagan who worshiped mother earth for many decades. I don't put much stock in what scientists say. I have never met one yet that would admit that there are so many things we just don't know for sure.

I doubt that, actually. I've never met a scientist who claimed to know a known unknown (to borrow a phrase from Rumsfeld). I HAVE met a few scientists who know a lot of things I didn't know. Is it possible you have those mixed up?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Ok, leaving aside whether or not the "imminent ice age" hypoyhesis is a preposterous bit of twaddle, I believe that we should do something to mitigate our influence on the climate. Regardless of sunspot activity it is a fact that CO2 concentrations have reached a point that threatens the climate stability our species depends on to live in settled communities. Hypothetically speaking, if the "ice age" hypothesis were not a bunch of hooey, we'd still be in for 6+ degrees of catastrophic warming when the sunspot activity returned to normal.

Actually, I think it is all a bunch of hooey on both sides. Did you click on this?


Climate Change Conspiracy - 2012 Galactic Alignment | 11:11 21-12-2012 Maya Calendar

 

[Revoltingest]

Well it is a fact accepted almost unanimously by scientists in relevant fields that we DO have the ability to control the earth's temperature: they all agree we are warming it up. I doubt you'll have much luck finding people on here that think nothing should even be attempted to avert the utter destruction of our civilization.....

This last part is where I part company with GW true believers. Sure there's lots'o evidence that the planet is warming.
But there is no evidence whatsoever that we'll be "utterly destroyed". There is good reason to fear major disruptions of
food & water supplies. But that doesn't portend "utter" destruction. It reminds me of Gore's claim that climate change
is irreversible. The planet has been warmer many times & become colder many times. How can it now be shown to be
irreversible.

 

[Alceste]

Actually, I think it is all a bunch of hooey on both sides. Did you click on this?


Climate Change Conspiracy - 2012 Galactic Alignment | 11:11 21-12-2012 Maya Calendar

Yes but it didn't display on the IPod. I'll have a look after I rehearse tonight. Judging by the title it looks like a real gas.

 

[LuisDantas]

My objective was to get folks to say, we don't have the ability to control the earths temperature. Even if we did, we cannot force countries like China and India to participate which in my opinion makes any effort fruitless.

Good luck then, Rev. Speaking for myself, you are not at all likely to get any agreements with either of those points.

I have always been a tree hugger, but that is a personal satisfaction thing for me.

I'm an ex-pagan who worshiped mother earth for many decades. I don't put much stock in what scientists say. I have never met one yet that would admit that there are so many things we just don't know for sure.

Really? Because it is so damn obvious, that I doubt any true scientist wouldn't say it.

 

[Oberon]

Do you not have google? This is the problem with folks wanting sources.

ALL SOURSES ARE BIASED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. NO SOURSE IS 100% CORRECT.

Using the reasoning behind wanting sources in the first place would imply that before the internet, nothing was true because it was not on the net.

It really is a big waste of time posting sources because they all have faults that can be challenged. But yet we ask for them anyway. Not exactly an honest request is it?

Your OP referenced "some scientists." So far, your only link isn't to any scientists at all. If you want to claim that some scientists actually think this, why can't just just link to the research or to the statements by these scientists instead of trying to defend a "yahoo answers" link?

 

[Alceste]

Your OP referenced "some scientists." So far, your only link isn't to any scientists at all. If you want to claim that some scientists actually think this, why can't just just link to the research or to the statements by these scientists instead of trying to defend a "yahoo answers" link?

In fairness, he found A scientist on prison planet (snort). Some Mexican fella who's into sun spots.

 

[Alceste]

Actually, I think it is all a bunch of hooey on both sides. Did you click on this?


Climate Change Conspiracy - 2012 Galactic Alignment | 11:11 21-12-2012 Maya Calendar

Seriously, Rick I got as far as 1:08 in the video before my irritation became so intense I had to shut it off, and only half-way through the first sentence of the blog post before my eyes literally refused to read more. I tried - I skimmed every paragraph hoping something readable would jump out at me, and not a single thing did.

Like I said, a reasonable amount of credibility is all I'm asking for. What new knowledge or insight on climate change can "Bruce" give me that I can't get from talking to some random schizophrenic bum on the street? Even in a casual ten second skim it was obvious to me that this is absolutely filled with factual claims I know to be either intentional lies or sincere delusions. I can't read stuff like that - the overwhelming ignorance and irrationality of it is too hard on my brain. :faint:

 

[YmirGF]

In fairness, he found A scientist on prison planet (snort). Some Mexican fella who's into sun spots.

Prison planet! Alex Jones.

 

[Alceste]

Prison planet! Alex Jones.

I know, I know. They do mention an actual, existing scientist though. I checked. Didn't read the rest of the article.

 

[dmgdnooc]

Some scientists are beginning to believe we may be headed for another Ice Age.

Just for a moment, if we where to assume this was true, should we do anything to stop this?

NASA is 'the' scientific authority that Americans should accept in regards climate change .
Climate Change: NASA's Eyes on the Earth
　
The principle that 'Man is both creature and moulder of his environment', and that 'we must shape our actions throughout the world with a more prudent care for their environmental consequences' and have a 'responsibility to ensure that (our) activities .... do not cause damage to the environment of other States or of areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction.' was agreed to in 1972.
-- Stockholm 1972 - Declaration of the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment - United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) --
　
And the fact that anthropogenic CO2 is warming the atmosphere and having an effect on weather patterns is a fact, no longer for dispute, accepted by the World's governments in 1987. (see annex 1.4.ii)
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1988/26.html
　
Countries like the US, Canada and Australia have been dragging their feet for decades trying to wring the last possible $dollar$ out of carbon technologies becasue corporate profits outweigh the international duties and responsibilities that we have solemnly agreed to.
　
IMO the time for talking about responsibility and duty is past and the world community should be instead talking about culpability and compensation and pursuing legal redress for the harm that has accumulated since the signing of these treaties.
　
There is growing recognition that the first stage of grief is being evidenced in the reaction of denial. Perhaps that is why you are in denial.
http://www.ntsg.umt.edu/files/5StagesClimateGrief.htm
Climate change is our tragedy and we have knowingly forced it upon an innocent world; and billions of the world's poorest and most defenceless will die on the altars of our lifestyle and way of life.
We have put the lives of our children and grandchildren in the gravest jeopardy, and that hurts us when we think about it.
These ideas carry with them such a mournful shame it is little wonder that so many individuals react to the realisation of the tragic circumstance by firstly denying the event.

 

[Dezzie]

Some scientists are beginning to believe we may be headed for another Ice Age.

Just for a moment, if we where to assume this was true, should we do anything to stop this?

I don't know about this Global Warming thing. A lot of people are skeptical. Have you ever heard of HAARP?