Friends with the opposite sex while married.

[turk179]

This is being discusses as though the terms are absolute, and they are not.

Terms are never absolute unless you are reading from a rulebook. But because this is RF, anyone that has been here any amount of time already knows this.

Would it be OK for a married person and their friend of the opposite sex to say, go on vacation together? Or to go to an event of some mutual interest that involves being gone over a night or weekend?

If your spouse or significant other has no problem with it then why not?

I think you all are being somewhat naive and idealistic. Of course it is possible for such friendships to work out. But it's just as possible that such friendships will end in ruining one or both friend's marriages.

The world is full of possiblities. I might also possibly be in a car accident but as a human, I have a lot more control as to whether I am unfaithful in a relationship.

It happens every day. And it happens exactly as the scenario is being discussed, here, and by people who did not intend for it to happen. It's not about trust. It's about responsibility. It's about understanding that for all the good intentions, human beings are weak when it comes to sexual attraction, and we often do things that we never meant to do going in. And we aren't going to know going in that we will end up being one of the weak ones. I can say with complete assurance that SOME of you who are boasting of your iron will and self-control, now, will be the one who fails when the crucial moment comes. And neither you nor I know exactly which ones of you that will be.

You don't seem to have very much faith in human beings. Sexual attraction is not a weakness. As humans we have the ability to choose who we want as a mate or sexual partner. To go through ones life avoiding potential relationships with people of the oppsite sex because one is afraid one might sleep with them is completely ridiculous.

 

[Sunstone]

True humility is acknowledging that we are all weak and vulnerable.

On the contrary, true humility is claiming for yourself no more and no less than what is just. It's just a fact that some people are weaker and more vulnerable than others. Would it be true humility for a stronger person to claim their limits for himself and act accordingly? Or would that just be a pathetic farce?

 

[PureX]

You don't seem to have very much faith in human beings. Sexual attraction is not a weakness. As humans we have the ability to choose who we want as a mate or sexual partner. To go through ones life avoiding potential relationships with people of the oppsite sex because one is afraid one might sleep with them is completely ridiculous.

This is not a trust issue. Everyone trusts their spouse. Yet 40% of marriages will end with someone cheating, anyway. NONE of those people thought it would be that way for them. They all trusted that it wouldn't. They all claimed that they were strong enough to resist the temptation. Yet in the end so many of them didn't.

To be married, one HAS to trust their partner. Otherwise the marriage will be a living hell for both. But trust has little to do with outcomes. I may trust myself, and my spouse, and still end up ruining my marriage by cheating, or find myself having been cheated on. It happens all the time.

I think it's somewhat humorous that all the people on THIS thread are so certain that they nor their spouses will ever screw up in this area - an area of life notorious for humans screwing up. When the simple numbers dictate that many of you will sooner or later discover that you were wrong. You will screw up. And you or your spouse will cheat.

I'm not suggesting that we avoid friendships with the opposite sex because of the dangers involved in having them. I'm just saying that I think you all are being surprisingly naive about this, and that naivete will lead to an even greater risk of problems in this area for you. We humans are always lying to ourselves about who we think we are, and what we think we are capable of. And we add to the delusions by lying to ourselves about lying to ourselves.

Even a professional fire-handler will burn himself sooner or later, if he keeps handling that fire. My suggestion is that we stop pretending that we're immune to infidelity, and learn to live realistically with the danger. That means making realistic decisions about about the degree of danger we are willing to accept in our marriages, KNOWING THAT WE DON'T KNOW OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER AS WELL AS WE THINK WE DO.

 

[blackout]

On the contrary, true humility is claiming for yourself no more and no less than what is just. It's just a fact that some people are weaker and more vulnerable than others. Would it be true humility for a stronger person to claim their limits for himself and act accordingly? Or would that just be a pathetic farce?

wow...

 

[turk179]

This is not a trust issue. Everyone trusts their spouse. Yet 40% of marriages will end with someone cheating, anyway. NONE of those people thought it would be that way for them. They all trusted that it wouldn't. They all claimed that they were strong enough to resist the temptation. Yet in the end so many of them didn't.

To be married, one HAS to trust their partner. Otherwise the marriage will be a living hell for both. But trust has little to do with outcomes. I may trust myself, and my spouse, and still end up ruining my marriage by cheating, or find myself having been cheated on. It happens all the time.

Sure it happens. it doesn't happen every time. It doesn't happen most of the time. Now I don't know where you got that 40% number but it is a gross miscalculation. Every year, out of 1000 people per state, on average only 5 will get divorced. Statistics say that 40% of divorce will be due to financial reasoning. Now that being fact, I would guess that a lot of these people have friends that are of the sex that they would be attracted to. If that is true, your lack of faith in humans is baseless.

I think it's somewhat humorous that all the people on THIS thread are so certain that they nor their spouses will ever screw up in this area - an area of life notorious for humans screwing up. When the simple numbers dictate that many of you will sooner or later discover that you were wrong. You will screw up. And you or your spouse will cheat.

What simple numbers are these?

I'm not suggesting that we avoid friendships with the opposite sex because of the dangers involved in having them. I'm just saying that I think you all are being surprisingly naive about this, and that naivete will lead to an even greater risk of problems in this area for you. We humans are always lying to ourselves about who we think we are, and what we think we are capable of. And we add to the delusions by lying to ourselves about lying to ourselves.

I think its funny that what you call naive, i call faith in humanity. I would love to finish this but I am out of time. Dinner plans.

 

[DallasApple]

You can say some people are weaker and more vulnerable than others..I dont believe its that simple..

I woud say some stronger less vulnerable people are always at risk of becoming weak and vulnerable..As well as the weak and vulnerable may develop strenght and become less vulnerable over thier lifetimes...

All of us are prone to infatuations.If we happen to become infatuated at any time in our lives when our relationship to our spouse/partner is weak adn our needs emotional or physical or both are not being met ...The temptations can be overwhelming ..

Its not about trust..not 100% anyway..

I would agree that a happily married couple that each are fullfilled and content in the relationship are less vulnerable and stronger and can with bounderies in place safely have opposite sex friendships.

You take that same couple with one or both very unhappy lonely dissatisifed for whatever reason your strength that you once had can evaporate ....you can fall head over heels infatuated before you know it.

And im sorry but it does take super human strenght I would say to walk away from relief all be it temporary and settle for a steady flow of misery...

In fact sometimes or MANY times adultery is an atomic bomb of reality that your relationship is very sick..

Strength and weakness is transient as far as Im concerned..Especially in reltaionships that go on for decades spanning over your lifetime...

Im not implying all people finding themselves weak and vulnerable dont resist finding relief in another other than thier spouse sexually...

I think realizing that you are vulnerable to BECOMING weak is a strength in itself.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

A little back ground information on this co-worker. While our relationship was developing, I was getting the impression from her that things were not well with her marriage or not as well as she may have hoped. Her husband and her really did not have all that in common and I do not think he may have encouraged or recognized her worth. She may not have been given that much attention at home and was not very social or active at work to encourage friendships. I believe I was a special consideration. I was a good listener, I was an active participant to any conversation and I think she was very comfortable around me.

Even though this woman drew the boundery for your friendship and ya'll agreed and abided by it..I find it very interesting this woman struck up a freindship with you and it happens she was in an unghappy marriage..

I have to wonder in this specific case if she was getting all the attention and affection she needed in marriage and she and her husband had common interest and spent recreational time toghether how interested would she had been in investing herself emotioanlly that deeply in a friendship with you?

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Inky]

To go through ones life avoiding potential relationships with people of the opposite sex because one is afraid one might sleep with them is completely ridiculous.

I agree. I have a hard time imagining what my life would be like if I had to go out of my way to avoid spending time with males. It would be socially crippling to have to avoid half the people I might want to spend time with; I probably wouldn't be able to function in a normal social or workplace environment. Restricting your behavior that severely isn't worth the lowered risk of cheating.

Anyway, if I had to choose for a marriage, I'd much rather be with someone who cheated on me once or twice in our lifetimes than someone who avoided all friendships with other women because he thought it was the only way he could control his sexual urges. Out of those two options, I'd say cheating is the lesser evil and would cause me less distress.

 

[PureX]

Half of all marriages (in the U.S.) will end in divorce. Three quarters of all second marriages will end in divorce. The percentage increases from there as the number of marriages increases.

Most failed marriages involve some form of infidelity during their course, but I don't know the exact number. My guess, though, is that it would be safe to say that about a third of all marriages will experience infidelity. Not all of them will fail, and not all failed marriages will experience infidelity, but I think a reasonable percentage would be about one third.

So let's say 33.3% instead of 40% of you married folks will likely experience infidelity in your marriage.

That's a lot more than the number of you who THINK you will experience it. That's my point.

 

[DallasApple]

P.S

I dont restrict my self completely from having friendships with men.When I worked I would go to lunch with men...More than one at the same time where I was the only female..

And yes..I would ride all the way to the 10th floor alone in an elevator alone with a MAN! LOL!!...I doubt I woud be over come with the urge to press the emergency stop button and have stranger sex with him..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[lunamoth]

My husband I have each had friends of the opposite sex throughout our marriage, no problem. However, since we've had children we very rarely have time to do things alone together. For us it's a huge deal to spend $40-50 for the sitter so we can go out and spend another $100 on dinner and a movie. We do lots of fun things as a family, but until the girls get older those dates out are few and far between.

So, if he started going out with another friend, and especially a woman friend, while I stay home with the kids, I would not be a happy wife. And I would feel very weird spending time with a man not my husband these days. It just would not be right.

I agree with Purex and Starfish actually. It is playing with fire.

 

[DallasApple]

My husband I have each had friends of the opposite sex throughout our marriage, no problem. However, since we've had children we very rarely have time to do things alone together. For us it's a huge deal to spend $40-50 for the sitter so we can go out and spend another $100 on dinner and a movie. We do lots of fun things as a family, but until the girls get older those dates out are few and far between.

So, if he started going out with another friend, and especially a woman friend, while I stay home with the kids, I would not be a happy wife. And I would feel very weird spending time with a man not my husband these days. It just would not be right.

I agree with Purex and Starfish actually. It is playing with fire.

Exactly..and you might start to resent him..then you would say something..then you might start arguing during the time you DID have toghether over this..He might say you were jealous and insecure..You would get more defensive..He would then have an "excuse" to go out and get away from the jealous irrational wife..She(his friend) would sympathise with him and agree you were being rediculous.She would give him the "understaning' he needed..He might think "why cant you be more like her'..and the rest is history.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

My husband I have each had friends of the opposite sex throughout our marriage, no problem. However, since we've had children we very rarely have time to do things alone together. For us it's a huge deal to spend $40-50 for the sitter so we can go out and spend another $100 on dinner and a movie. We do lots of fun things as a family, but until the girls get older those dates out are few and far between.

So, if he started going out with another friend, and especially a woman friend, while I stay home with the kids, I would not be a happy wife. And I would feel very weird spending time with a man not my husband these days. It just would not be right.

I agree with Purex and Starfish actually. It is playing with fire.

Oh add to that...if while your husband was out and about leisuring with her..What if you had a neighbor next door (a man) that would come over and talk to you and help you cook dinner and be a shoulder to cry on and someone to vent to about your husbands selfishness?And he said things like..."your husband is crazy to leave you here all alone....I would take care of you if you were my wife ...wild horses couldnt drag me from you.."... :no:

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Starfish]

I think realizing that you are vulnerable to BECOMING weak is a strength in itself.

That's worth quoting. Thankyou Dallas.

 

[DallasApple]

That's worth quoting. Thankyou Dallas.

Your welcome Starfish..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh add to that...if while your husband was out and about leisuring with her..What if you had a neighbor next door (a man) that would come over and talk to you and help you cook dinner and be a shoulder to cry on and someone to vent to about your husbands selfishness?And he said things like..."your husband is crazy to leave you here all alone....I would take care of you if you were my wife ...wild horses couldnt drag me from you.."... :no:

Blessings

Dallas

I will add..LOL!! You might find yourself glad your husband is gone..Because that way you get to spend more time with your neighbor who seems to appreciate you and all you are..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Nanda]

I will add..LOL!! You might find yourself glad your husband is gone..Because that way you get to spend more time with your neighbor who seems to appreciate you and all you are..

Blessings

Dallas

I have a question: Why stay with a man who doesn't appreciate you?

 

[Katzpur]

Well, I'll be the lone stick-in-the-mud here. I would not risk it. (Guess I just set myself up for a beating . . . .)

I'm not going to beat you, but I am going to disagree -- at least to an extent. I worked with a man (Mike) about twenty years ago that I became close friends with. I had been married for about eighteen years at the time. It was a small office with maybe a half dozen employees at the most. Mike and I used to go to lunch together often, just the two of us. We'd spend an hour just eating and talking. Mike was divorced at the time, but dating a woman he eventually married. We hit it off from the start and have been friends for twenty years. He and his wife were responsible for getting my husband and me to go back to the temple after a twenty-year absence. The four of us still get together for dinner and a movie now and then, or to go to the temple. I spoke at their son's baptismal service.

 

[DallasApple]

I have a question: Why stay with a man who doesn't appreciate you?

Because in a long term relationship you can go through hard times where if you can weather the storm its worth it..

Its called long term commitment..

Im talking about two people learning each other and tolerating each other at times.. staying together for 40 50 60 and 70 years..Its not always going to be peaches and roses..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[MoonWater]

A lot of people are talking about trusting your spouse and trusting your self and having your spouse trust you when it comes to these relationships but I think everyone is forgetting about two other very important aspects that allow these relationships to work. Those are one you have to be albe to trust the opposite sex friend to say no if things start to escalate. Second if something does happen you have to be honest with your spouse and tell them right away. I don't know about everyone else here but I'd be less angry and more likely to forgive my boyfriend for cheating if he came forward and told me what happened. For me the real thing is secrecy. For him to keep it a secret that he cheated on me would, in my eyes, be the same as lying to me. As it turns out my best friend is a guy who was actually my boyfriend for two years. We've known eachother since middle school and I think he still has some attraction towards me. But it's not an issue because I trust him not to try anything and because we already know from experience that we just aren't compatible with eachother. I think the trouble comes from being uncomfortable and not accepting an attraction when it appears. We're so afraid of being unfaithful that the instant an attraction appears for someone other than our spouse, we bury it and try to ignore it. Then we feel it again and bury it again and over time it builds to the point where it can no longer be buried and ignored. What we should do is acknowledge that we have an attraction, accept the fact that it is only natural, be open and honest with your spouse about said attraction and if necessary find some means of releasing it other then hopping into bed with someone else. This is what I did when I felt some attraction towards one of my bf's guy friends and what he did when he felt some attraction towards one of my girl friends. Is it full-proof? No, but it works for us. And I'd sooner live this way and risk the possibility of me or him cheating once or twice then spend the rest of my life either with him or in female company only, or having to worry about getting an "escort", or anything like that. I'd sooner stay single forever then live that kind of life. But that's just me.