For those who seek the Truth...

[crowfeather]

Yes, truth is discovered by reasoning. We don't just 'know' the truth without thought. it has to be looked for and carefully separated from falsehood.

Strange how you are unable to see what it is that renders you so miserable, even when it is accurately described.
But I realized, recently, that when people are miserable for long enough, they prefer it to the unfamiliar territory of what they don't recognize.

 

[Polymath257]

Strange how you are unable to see what it is that renders you so miserable, even when it is accurately described.
But I realized, recently, that when people are miserable for long enough, they prefer it to the unfamiliar territory of what they don't recognize.

You only assume I am miserable because you imagine your own misery if you were in my situation. But I am not miserable.

 

[crowfeather]

You only assume I am miserable because you imagine your own misery if you were in my situation. But I am not miserable.

I'm glad to hear it. Each to his own. Many actively enjoy misery, wallowing in it for fun. That's one of life's enduring Mysteries.

 

[Kirran]

Not trying to be obtuse here, Crow, but you are making no sense to me. You cannot know anything without a mind to know it.

If I may weigh in: it can be useful to quietly observe the mind, and see what it is. The mind is ultimately something we say we have, something we experience. It's not what we are or something that's vital for us to experience. There has to be a you there to experience that mind. It takes a while of re-conditioning to let go of the idea of the mind's all-importance, but that is basically all it is - an idea.

 

[JoeEcho]

Light hides within itself and as such discovers and rediscovers itself. Not the truth, just some light reading.

 

[Kirran]

Yes, truth is discovered by reasoning. We don't just 'know' the truth without thought. it has to be looked for and carefully separated from falsehood.

I have found that the mind is very useful in categorising things and describing things, but that ultimately by definition everything one uses the mind to look at is conceptualised, that's what filtering through the mind does to experience. To experience things directly cannot but be transrational.

 

[Polymath257]

I have found that the mind is very useful in categorising things and describing things, but that ultimately by definition everything one uses the mind to look at is conceptualised, that's what filtering through the mind does to experience. To experience things directly cannot but be transrational.

Yes, to understand is different than to experience. Experience is the initial data. Understanding is what happens after thought and testing.

 

[Kirran]

Yes, to understand is different than to experience. Experience is the initial data. Understanding is what happens after thought and testing.

There are different types of understanding, I suppose. They each have their own value.

 

[minorwork]

Here are some additional quotes about the Truth directly from the mind of Christ;

The mind of Christ?
Would you bet on it and be able to resolve a bet on the truth of your claim?

Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it.

Ah, now I can see the justification for the following in your reading of the mind of Christ.

"When you are right, you have a moral duty to impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you." ~ Tomas de Torquemada, Inquisitor General of Spain

Seems to be a common point of view with the self-righteous.

"I was doing God's will, which is not a crime." - Dan Lafferty (Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith by John Krakauer)

Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympics bomber could say the same, eh?

I think, eldios, that you've tapped into the mind of a clever liar who lures you with comfort and self-assurance in your innate superiority.

 

[Jason0047]

Consider that:
Truth is not discovered by reasoning, or applying rules to it.
Truth is what exists before the mind does anything to it.
Truth is not thought into existence; it is discovered.
If it is not discovered, it is not Truth.

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life (John 14:6).

I believe a person can discover truth (Jesus) by reasoning over the Scriptures in the fact there are many evidences that back it up. I believe a person can discover truth (Jesus) by keeping His commands (See John 14:23).

It is true that truth (Jesus) exists before our minds decide to do anything with the truth.

It is true that truth (Jesus) is not thought into existence, but such a truth is discovered. However, there are certain truths that are a part of the creation that did not exist at one time.

Jesus is still true or truth even if He was never discovered by anyone.
Something is true even if it is not discovered.
The truth of atoms was still true even when man did not know of them yet.


...

 

[crowfeather]

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life (John 14:6).

I believe a person can discover truth (Jesus) by reasoning over the Scriptures in the fact there are many evidences that back it up. I believe a person can discover truth (Jesus) by keeping His commands (See John 14:23).

It is true that truth (Jesus) exists before our minds decide to do anything with the truth.

It is true that truth (Jesus) is not thought into existence, but such a truth is discovered. However, there are certain truths that are a part of the creation that did not exist at one time.

Jesus is still true or truth even if He was never discovered by anyone.
Something is true even if it is not discovered.
The truth of atoms was still true even when man did not know of them yet.
...

Context: "If it is not discovered, it is not Truth."
If what you decree to be truth is not discovered, but absorbed in some other way, it is not Truth.
Naturally, actual Truth exists independently of whether anyone discovers it, or not.
I could have been a bit more clear than I was.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Meditation requires a mind.

Yes it does. For as long as the mind lasts.

 

[YmirGF]

Truth is relative to understanding and is therefore not something to get too hung up on...

 

[Kirran]

Keep in mind that proselytising is not permitted per RF's Rule 8. Furthermore, biblical and intra-faith debates are not permitted in the Seekers Circle.

 

[syo]

Consider that:
Truth is not discovered by reasoning, or applying rules to it.
Truth is what exists before the mind does anything to it.
Truth is not thought into existence; it is discovered.
If it is not discovered, it is not Truth.

what truth?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....................................
Eternal life is man's birthright, only now, he must work at it, rather than being granted it, gratis.
I know about death. It is sublime. But only if entered into with joy.
Willingly embracing death is the gateway to Heaven. Resisting death in a fearful panic, is the gateway to hell.
Enlightenment is a real-time preview of a willing death. You die. But winning the star prize: you get to come back.

I would suppose Adam had to work at (meaning obey) his birthright, so to speak, of eternal life in the sense that Adam was Not to break God's Law if he forever wanted everlasting life on beautiful paradisical Earth.

Scripture too I find speaks of knowing about death because Scripture connects death to sleep.
The 'dead know nothing' according to Ecclesiastes 9:5 because the dead 'sleep in death' according to Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4. ( R.I.P. rest in peace ) Even the word cemetery means ' sleeping place '.
That is why to me Jesus' words teach that the dead are in a sleep-like state according to John 11:11-14.

I find that death was Not Jesus gateway to Heaven, because 'resurrection' was.
God did Not resurrect Jesus the day Jesus died, because according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day Jesus died the dead Jesus went to ' biblical ' hell. Jesus died a willing death, a real-time willing death, but still righteous Jesus went to the Bible's hell (which is mankind's temporary grave for the un-conscious sleeping dead ).

So, what I am trying to say is that there is more than one teaching about hell:
* There is the non-biblical hell teaching of a permanent burning forever hell.
* There is the biblical hell teaching of a temporary grave for the sleeping dead until ' resurrection day ' meaning Jesus' coming 'millennium-long day' of governing over Earth when the majority of mankind will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on a beautiful paradisical Earth as the Garden of Eden originally was.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

what truth?

To me there is more than one ' truth ' because besides what we consider as being truth in secular matters is one truth, but I find there is also religious truth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If Jesus was real, as I'm sure he was, and was Jesus, as I'm sure he is, then 'logical reasoning' played no part in anything he said or did.
This is where Christians leave the path and lose the plot.
God, Heaven, Love and Life are not mind-things. The mind leads to hell. One look at people's posts will clearly illustrate this.
Not having idols is a big deal, for a big reason.
The mind is the worst case scenario as far as idols go. It replaces God with itself.
As you'll have noticed, it doesn't do a very good job of God-replacement.

We then agree Jesus was real, and since Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written....." ( meaning already written down ) then Jesus was using logical reasoning on the written-down old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings. Jesus I find did Not use his mind as a God-replacement, but he taught the mind of God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have found that the mind is very useful in categorising things and describing things, but that ultimately by definition everything one uses the mind to look at is conceptualised, that's what filtering through the mind does to experience. To experience things directly cannot but be transrational.

I also read the ^ above ^ substituting the word ' brain' where the word ' mind ' appears.
So, I am wondering where is the line drawn between brain and mind.

 

[Kirran]

I also read the ^ above ^ substituting the word ' brain' where the word ' mind ' appears.
So, I am wondering where is the line drawn between brain and mind.

Brain is more like a physical object.