Florida GOP want to check out teenage genitals.

[SkepticThinker]

Not with all the women that are affected.

Really?

So how many is "all?" And how are they affected?
How about women like this?
Caster Semenya Loses Case to Compete as a Woman in All Races (Published 2019)

 

[sun rise]

I guess the whole problem stems from the fact that a 'trans' girl on a sports team continues to have male strength, maybe an unfair playing field?

Since women's natural testosterone levels vary, let's go all the way: mandate testing and exclude all genetic females unless their testosterone levels are within the mandated quantities.

And while we're at it, we need to account for smokers and users of hormone replacement therapy and so forth - make sure women match up to those criteria as well. Testosterone Concentrations in Women Aged 25–50 Years: Associations with Lifestyle, Body Composition, and Ovarian Status

We should do the same thing for men, of course, since some have an unfair advantage due to increased testosterone levels. Fair is fair.

Or maybe stop using utterly and completely bogus words like 'destroyed' and thoughtfully consider sports where strength matters and those where it does not matter for starters two examples being women's gymnastics and show jumping.

And if you really want to get nit-picky, measure genetic females testosterone levels/strength against trans women and exclude genetic women who are equal to trans women there.

 

[Kooky]

We're too polarized with extreme reactions and accusations on both sides. Common sense says a male has physical advantages over a female in many or most sports. It is neither a phobia (e.g., "transphobia") or a sexual perversion to hold that view. There needs to be civil and rational dialog on the subject. I believe there are caring, empathetic, and rational people on both sides of the issue.

The fundamental flaw in this argument is that trans women are women, not men. Just as trans men are men, not women.

 

[Kooky]

I guess the whole problem stems from the fact that a 'trans' girl on a sports team continues to have male strength, maybe an unfair playing field?

I find it strange to assume that physical weight and upper body strength (the two areas where cis male athletes are advantaged) are the only determinants of athletic success.

If that were the case, we wouldn't need competitions, as the heaviest and strongest people would always win by default. The fact that this is not the case suggests that there are other factors at play besides upper body strength and weight.

 

[oldbadger]

This is based on the premise that female athletes are usually inferior to their male counterparts in their chosen field, correct?

Not inferior, simply built differently.
Kooky, can you please show us some female records that best the male ones?
That would be helpful

 

[oldbadger]

Are you saying that female athletes are inferior, or not?

Come on Kooky.
Please show me some female records that best men's.

Women deserve to have their own times, heights, speeds, weights, Kooky.

 

[Kooky]

Not inferior, simply built differently.
Kooky, can you please show us some female records that best the male ones?
That would be helpful

Come on Kooky.
Please show me some female records that best men's.

What would be the point of that?

Women deserve to have their own times, heights, speeds, weights, Kooky.

[You replied before I could edit in the rest of my response:]

If they were only "built differently" then that wouldn't be a problem now would it?

The centerpiece of your argument seems to be that cis women cannot compete with trans women because trans women are stronger, heavier etc i.e. better athletes due to them having been born in masculine bodies. Is that correct? In that case, the argument rests on the claim that feminine bodies are not competitive with masculine bodies when it comes to competitive sports.

 

[fantome profane]

The fundamental flaw in this argument is that trans women are women, not men. Just as trans men are men, not women.

You don’t even know what the terms “trans woman” or “trans man” mean.

Until you educate yourself you can’t understand this issue much less form a cogent argument.

 

[pearl]

Or maybe stop using utterly and completely bogus words like 'destroyed' and thoughtfully consider sports where strength matters and those where it does not matter for starters two examples being women's gymnastics and show jumping.

I think it was noted that sports involved were contact sports.

 

[Kooky]

I think it was noted that sports involved were contact sports.

Most contact sports I know of have weight classes, which exist specifically to prevent unfair match ups such as larger, heavier athletes to run roughshod over their smaller, lighter competitors.

 

[Kooky]

You don’t even know what the terms “trans woman” or “trans man” mean.

Until you educate yourself you can’t understand this issue much less form a cogent argument.

I disagree.

 

[pearl]

If that were the case, we wouldn't need competitions, as the heaviest and strongest people would always win by default. The fact that this is not the case suggests that there are other factors at play besides upper body strength and weight.

I'm reminded that this time of year would normally be the time for the Boston Marathon, postponed due to covid, and the runners always separated in groups, men, women. Why not just have them all run together? Could it be there is a male advantage?

 

[Kooky]

I'm reminded that this time of year would normally be the time for the Boston Marathon, postponed due to covid, and the runners always separated in groups, men, women. Why not just have them all run together? Could it be there is a male advantage?

There is a male advantage in most economically and socially prestigious undertakings.

What we have yet to explore is whether this is both biological and inborn, and does not in fact change with different hormonal makeup, social status etc.

 

[oldbadger]

In that case, the argument rests on the claim that feminine bodies are not competitive with masculine bodies when it comes to competitive sports.

What were we s thinking about!
OK ....
No more men's events and women's events, clearly that offends ....
On future could all events be human events? Would you allow that?
If not, why not.
Over to you.

 

[Kooky]

What were we s thinking about!
OK ....
No more men's events and women's events, clearly that offends ....
On future could all events be human events? Would you allow that?
If not, why not.
Over to you.

Performative outrage aside, do you agree with my assessment or not?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I guess the whole problem stems from the fact that a 'trans' girl on a sports team continues to have male strength, maybe an unfair playing field?

Yes, I know what the issue is. I don't have strong opinion on it until more research is done. This is a really new thing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is a male advantage in most economically and socially prestigious undertakings.

What we have yet to explore is whether this is both biological and inborn, and does not in fact change with different hormonal makeup, social status etc.

Economics and social status have zero to do with this topic. The main issue is whether trans women have an unfair advantage over cis women in sports due to their physical makeup, even after being on hormone therapy. There's much research that needs to be done about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know of only one standard.
Drop your pants and accept the gender you see.
If you underwent surgery, you mind told you your eyes are wrong, and the sky is not blue anymore.

What would you do if they had both
genders, no gender, or something else?
There is complexity out there in the world.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know of only one standard.
Drop your pants and accept the gender you see.
If you underwent surgery, you mind told you your eyes are wrong, and the sky is not blue anymore.

I'm seeing so much of this offensive nonsense said about trans people, that it's time for a thread about it to set some people straight. *Makes note to make one later on*

I guess men who lose their genitals to injury or disease aren't men anymore, according to your failed logic. You can't have it both ways. Obviously your genitals can't tell you if you're a man or woman, themselves. There's all sorts of ways they can be messed up.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The fundamental flaw in this argument is that trans women are women, not men. Just as trans men are men, not women.

No. But...

Legally yes, I agree in that context.

Genetics are a different matter altogether however. There will never be a full transformation. It just dosent exist. At least for now.