Florida church plans to burn Korans on 9/11 anniversary

[Rainbow Mage]

Oh dear, and so the fundamentalists show their stupidity yet again

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Book burnings are always a sign of an open minded group of fun individuals.

Agreed. I'm not Muslim but I wouldn't ever burn literature like that.

If they really wanted to burn something, why not get a bunch of NAMBLA literature and burn that?

 

[linwood]

i would have to disagree with that. to me definition of extremist is a person who enjoys terrorizing people and feels superior scaring people.

Indeed that is extremism as well.
Not much better than those who would physically fight over something as valueless as the written word.

The value in the Koran isn`t it`s physical manifestation.
It is the message within it, that message cannot be harmed by these Christian idiots at all.
If anything their stupidity makes for good PR for Islam.

Fighting over the physical books being burnt is nothing more than fighting for pride.
That is extremism...always.

if they are holding guns and organized then they are terrorists. they are most likely sadistic and oppressive people. but there are also ordinary people who have weaknesses. you don't need to be extremist to have revengeful thoughts. matter of fact, noone needs to be religious at all to have revengeful thoughts because revenge is a vice that everyone has. so far i can tell motivation of extremists is hatred. there are other motivations and people have limits. extremists and terrorists are doing whatever they are doing not because they lost control, no, they chose to, they like it. but people may lose control as well. for that matter, burning Quran is a great provocation. anything worse? burning Muslims, maybe?

It is statements like this lava that make you sound like an extremist yourself.

 

[Smokeless Indica]

What happened to religious tolerance?????????????????
Just because a few people the whole Muslim society is to blame.
I hate to say it but that guy is a ******* idiot.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Cypress,

Florida church plans to burn Korans on 9/11 anniversary

Will that change anything?
Is that Religiousness?

Burning paper and fanning hatred! is all that, it will surely achieve!

Love & rgds

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Another reason why I left Florida...

 

[LuisDantas]

It is statements like this lava that make you sound like an extremist yourself.

I can see where you are coming from. Yet I must say that if you knew .lava better you would hardly think of considering her an extremist. It is in fact a major challenge not become fond of her, let me say.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Oh wow... and you guys thought I was over-exaggerating about the kind of people I have to deal with at work...

I live about 5 hours from Miami and an hour from Gainesville. I go to college in Gainesville... it is a very open minded religiously tolerant city. I can't imagine that going over well. I should go up there on Aug. 2nd and protest with all the other protesters. I'll bring eggs and take pictures of the church people splattered with them.

 

[Sunstone]

It is statements like this lava that make you sound like an extremist yourself.

If you actually knew .lava, you would know she is anything but an extremist.

 

[linwood]

If you actually knew .lava, you would know she is anything but an extremist.

I did not say lava was an extremist and I have had quite a few discussions with her.
Some where we agree and some where we don`t.

However the comparison of burning Korans to burning Muslims is at the very least an extreme in and of itself.

 

[Badran]

this kind of stuff does not need a bunch of cruel men to start a fight. i mean, one does not really have to be extremist, radical or terrorist to give a reaction to this. a teenager would do, someone who has temper would do. there are Muslims that i know. they trully have nothing to do with extreme thoughts or ways. but they would fight over this physically. people have limits, you know.

well, i hope they don't do it

.

I understand what you're saying. Since i saw some responses to your post, allow me to add to your point and try to explain it more.

I think what is meant here, is that when we put in mind some people with their attributes, who might actually react to this in a bad way, we'd realize its not necessarily at all that this person is extreme. Some people have a bad temper in general, they do fight over some reasons, that others won't. Thats not good, but its not terrorism or extremism. The other example .lava gave, is for example a 15 year old boy, getting worked up over this, and he might easily get sucked into a physical fight. When i was at school i had some fights, over very silly reasons, that doesn't mean i was a terrorist.

However, of course that is an immature reaction to give, and an out of control behavior.

 

[Badran]

UM... NO, this logic is not in the least bit logical; no more than saying the death penalty reduces crimes for which that penalty is enforced. Burning the Quran will actually have the opposite effect on all Muslims, not just the radical ones. This act will not send any kind of sobering message, it will only serve to inflame and VALIDATE the hatred they have for infidels. The very act of burning something held sacred by a group, in no way causes fear but will cause an anger than us "sane men" should fear. It's stupidity at it's finest, and ONE time when the First Ammendment doesn't help.

Thank you for saying this. I have to say this logic almost drives me out of my mind. For someone to assume that he has the right or the power to make me "deal with it" through doing something i hate, and assume the "sobering" effect will make me better (of course, "better" is merely based on his view of what is better, he would be only trying to make me more like him) is insulting to say the least.

 

[Sunstone]

Burning someone else's holy book -- always a good idea. [/sarcasm]

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why not get it over with and wear white hooded robes too.

 

[LuisDantas]

I did not say lava was an extremist and I have had quite a few discussions with her.
Some where we agree and some where we don`t.

However the comparison of burning Korans to burning Muslims is at the very least an extreme in and of itself.

You know, there is a good opportunity is disguise right here in this remark of yours.

.lava is by no means an extremist, but I can see that without a proper understanding of the differences between the cultures it may be hard to see exactly how strong the gesture described in the OP is to the eyes of a Muslim.

The extremes are, far as I can tell, mostly in the cultural expectations. While it can seem natural to think of burning the Qur'an as a comparatively harmless act, it fails to consider the exact role of it to Muslims. Besides, it is quite plainly an offensive and crude gesture to begin with.

Given that, I am willing to take your claim quite literally; .lava looks like an extremist when judged by that statement without any context, or with the context of a somewhat average "western" (vague as that may be). What that actually means is not that she is an extremist, but rather that there are some challenges to be faced in the exchanges between Muslims and non-Muslims.

That, or that I have a very poor judgment of people, which is of course true... but not in this case, not to that degree. If .lava is an extremist, I could use a few more extremists in my life. In fact, I look forward to that.

 

[Badran]

Good points Luis.

Don't forget though that she didn't say (or at least i think she didn't) that its okay to fight over this. She was merely pointing out that some people who aren't terrorists or extremists might also overreact in some conditions, given they have certain attributes. Attributes, that are quite evident in society.

Like having a temper problem, or being a teenager who got quite provoked and reacted in an irresponsible manner (which happens quite often with teenagers).

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure they are that evident, Badran. That is why we should make an effort to look for them. I have reasons to suspect that we westerns don't immediately realize exactly how extreme the act of burning the Qur'an is to a Muslim. It has been said that the Qur'an fills a role in Islam whose parallel in Christianity would not be that of the Bible (the Word of God) but that of Jesus (the actual one-time-only Blessing from God).

Having that in mind, the burning changes significance. It ceases to look like a dumb and crude challenge from people full of hatred and becomes a complete, blasphemous aggression - not much unlike capturing a Red Cross nurse team, beating them until they are covered in blood, and insulting them. The response will, of course, be very extreme in feeling if nothing else, because it is fed by an equally extreme feeling.

Sometimes we get carried away and treat extreme feelings as an evident moral flaw from others. That is not always the wise opinion to have, however.

 

[Badran]

By evident, i didn't mean that there are lots of people like that, but more like that such examples do exist and we see them in our lives. I get angry easily, if i'm standing in front of someone, and he does any offensive gesture (like the one of this thread), i would be enraged, that doesn't necessarily mean i would fight the guy, especially today. But if it happened 5 years ago, i might have just done that. Is it wrong, of course it is. But its not terrorism. You see what i'm saying?

I agree that i don't think its quite fully understood what this gesture means for muslims, but i believe it should be either met with no response at all, or a positive one if possible (which would be preferable). Mainly because this incident is so extreme it speaks for itself.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I dunno... these people seem pretty unstable...

I wouldn't put it past them to slippery slope themselves into justifying the burning of "sinful" people. I mean, history repeats itself.

They seem like they are trying to be a Westboro mini-me.

 

[.lava]

The value in the Koran isn`t it`s physical manifestation.
It is the message within it, that message cannot be harmed by these Christian idiots at all.
If anything their stupidity makes for good PR for Islam.

what does it have to do with anything i am trying to say?

Fighting over the physical books being burnt is nothing more than fighting for pride.
That is extremism...always.

everyone has pride and everyone has a breaking point. according to your logic there is no difference between a serial killer who kills randomly for fun and a guy who kills a man after he found him in bed with his wife. please don't try to explain to me murderer is wrong because i am not defending murderer.

It is statements like this lava that make you sound like an extremist yourself.

unfortunately it is statements like this that make me feel this is not a friendly talk. instead of trying to understand what i am saying, you make it about me as if i am OK with violance. you are so ready to point people as extremists. do you think you are unbreakable? really? i know that i am not but i am not extremist, it is only because i am a human being. if every emotional reaction was a proof one was extremist, then entire world must be and everyone must be because people can give emotional reactions without thinking

.